Re: OT: Physicians for a National Health Program

["Roland Moore" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Koresh? Might want to check his record more throughly. I don't think he ever
plotted any events involving mass murders, except the one he died in
perhaps. There was a regular trial in Federal Court of the survivors charged
with crimes as a result of that event.  A regular jury got to hear as much
of it as the judge would allow of what really happened. The U.S.
Government's case failed due to a lack of merit in the charges. As Mike
DeGuerin said, this case centered on the idea that the trial itself was
about "respect," and whether the federal government still had any for
individual rights, the American people, or the U.S. Constitution. It is a
shame that the ATF leaders and Janet Reno were never held to account for
what happened.

"Frank Olson" <use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:2D59j.4023$hQ3.1221@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Edmund Fitzgerald wrote:
>
> >> It's really no different than our own "great religion".  We have
advocates
> >> for Peace as well yet it all seems to fall on "deaf ears".
> >
> >
> > Pure horseshit.  There are no organazitions of Christian crusaders
running
> > amuck in the world beheading and blowing up whoever they please.
>
> No.  But we do have guys the likes of the idiot that runs "Bountiful".
> We have "nut jobs" like Koresh.  The "Christian Faith" has many
> proponents, some of whose views are rather "extreme".  A Muslim fanatic
> wouldn't hesitate to throw his life away (as long as he believed what he
> was doing carried the "blessing" of Allah.  There are many similarities
> between the "training camps" of someone like Bin Laden and Daniel Koresh
> or any equally extremist "white power" group.  We do have a "different
> morality" in North America as opposed to the middle east.  Where we make
> the biggest mistake is trying to impose that same morality on a people
> that simply don't understand it (or our way of life).
>
>
> > Next you
> > will be going on about how George Bush blew up the WTC buildings.
>
> Now that's a bit extreme.  GB had nothing to do with it, however, there
> were plenty of warnings that something "big" was going to happen (which
> we did nothing about).  When those Muslim extremists tried to force an
> Air France pilot to take off and deliberately crash his jet into a
> building, he refused.  A number of individuals "read the signs" and
> tried to warn the industry, but no one listened.  Additionally US
> Intelligence analysts warned the administration that such an attack
> could occur.
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/18/attack/main509488.shtml
>
>
> > It was spouting off this kind of rubbish that got Rosie O'Donnell fired
from
> > The View of all places.
>
> I don't like Rosie O'Donnell and I don't watch a great deal of TV (other
> than BBC world news, the National Geographic, and Discovery channels)
> (and what I read on the CBC website).
>
>
> >
> >
> >> FWIW, I am a Christian.  Jesus greatest commandment was to "love one
> >> another and love your God".  I could never bring myself to kill another
> >> human being.  I would make a poor soldier in that respect.  I don't
live
> >> in a neighbourhood where anyone would threaten my family, and I
honestly
> >> don't know how I would respond to some of the situations I've read
about
> >> where someone was called upon to defend what they hold dear with deadly
> >> force.  I hold a high blue belt in kick-boxing and have practised kendo
> >> for over fifteen years.  I believe I would be able to acquit myself
rather
> >> well if the situation warranted, but I would stop short of actually
> >> killing someone.  Pain through maiming can be an equally effective
counter
> >> and is far more preferable (in my view) to manslaughter.
> >
> > Ok I've got it about not getting into a fist fight or a kicking match
with
> > you, but these days the phony Jihadist are using big knives, guns, and
> > bombs.
>
> They've *always* been using "big knives, guns, and bombs".
>
>
> > Let's say some of these phony Jihadist kidnapped your wife and
> > children (assuming you have them) during your next trip to Mecca and
they
> > were about to behead them.
>
> What you're proposing is utterly preposterous.  I have no interest in
> going to Mecca, and neither does my wife.  My younger son wants to visit
> Egypt though.  I wouldn't volunteer for service in Iraq (or Afghanistan)
> as either a peace-keeper or employee of an international logistics (or
> oil) company.  You wouldn't be able to pay me enough to go there.
>
>
> > If someone put a gun in your hand and pushed you
> > into the room with these guys would you be willing to kill them to the
save
> > the lives of your wife and children?  If you wouldn't, I'd  be willing
to do
> > it for you.
>
> I hope I will never be in placed in such a position.  I pray you will
> never either.
>
>
> >
> > If a co-conspritor of the phony Jihadists was in custody and it was
> > understood he had information about your kidnapped family's whereabouts
> > would you be willing to pour water over his face in an effort to save
the
> > lives your family?
>
> I believe that there are means available to obtain this kind of
> information that doesn't involve torture.  I certainly don't believe we
> should be paying a murderer like Clifford Olson (no relation) so he
> would lead the police to the bodies of his victims.
>
>
> > If you wouldn't, I'd be willing to do it for you.  Your
> > kendo (thought that was a card game) is not going save your family under
> > these circumstances.
>
> I'm pretty handy with Bokken, Katana and Wakasachi.  Kendo is the "way
> of the sword".
>
>
> >
> > But I am glad to hear you live in a nice neighborhood where monsters
can't
> > find you or your family.
>
> I pray you're able to afford to live in one too.
>
>
>
> >> and I'm glad that "cooler heads" prevailed.  I'm sorry for the kids
> >> involved.  She is apparently a gifted teacher with an excellent record.
> >
> > Well let's say these Muslim men somehow did determine that this gifted
> > teacher with an excellent record did intend disrespect with that teddy
bear.
>
> You see.  You're presenting an hypothetical situation that is extremely
> difficult to discuss.  I suppose it could easily have gone against her.
>    I'm grateful it didn't.
>
>
>
> > In that case wouldn't  those "cooler heads" have been compelled  to turn
her
> > over to the raging mob with machettes or quietly stone her to death in a
> > stoning pit somewhere?  All in all she's quite
> > fortunate to have survived her near death experience with the "religion
of
> > peace".  My advice for her would be stay in Britian and keep the hell
away
> > from the Muslim side of town.  Whoppi Goldberg's advice for her is that
she
> > needs to be more sensitive to Muslim customs.  Well I  reckon so.
Muslim
> > men are such a sensitive lot.
> >
> > This morning I read about a Muslim man who killed his bride on their
wedding
> > night because he could not "break her hymen".  Whether it was not there
or
> > if  there was some other kind of shortcoming we don't know.  In any
event he
> > somehow convinced himself she had been with another man and then
proceeded
> > to stab her to death.  What I'm wondering is this:  does the "peaceful
> > religion" limit in any way the right of Muslim men to kill their wives
and
> > female children?  Seems to me the peace in this "peaceful religion" is
> > reserved exclusively for Muslim men and boys, excluding the homosexual
men
> > of course.
>
> First of all, Islam is a religion as well as a way of life.  Those whom
> embrace it do so willingly (as with any religion).  Some children are
> raised "in the Faith".  My children (both boys) were raised in the
> Christian Faith.  Neither have chosen to adopt it (sad to say), but they
> made that choice freely.
>
> Some "believers" would argue that we should have been more insistent and
> less "moderate" in our views.  The Quran presents a rather extremist
> life style.  So does the Old Testament.  I think you'll find many
> religions and theologies have "hard core" proponents and well as more
> moderated ones.  If we were all to live as Jesus instructs, would we
> have the need of a military?  Or fire-arms?  Is such an existence even
> possible (or plausible)?  "Thou shalt not kill" doesn't have a list of
> provisos or exceptions.  God simply instructs:  "Don't do this".  I
> don't believe the State has the right to take a life either and I
> certainly don't believe they have the right to ask you to sacrifice
> yours because a group of elected officials say you must.
>
> Bass once accused me of being a "draft dodger".  I was five weeks old
> when my parents moved to Canada, and I graduated high school a few years
> after the US quit drafting its citizens into military service.  Had I
> received "the call", I certainly would have reported (not doing so would
> have been illegal).  I would have refused any order that required me to
> kill another human being and I would have made that sentiment plain on
> the very first day of boot camp.  I probably would have spent a good
> deal of time in the stockade (or peeling potatoes).