Re: OT: Physicians for a National Health Program

["Robert L Bass" <RobertLBass@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
>> Sorry, but "facts" and "Fox" cannot be used in the same sentence.
>
> this discredits _nothing_ ive said.

Perhaps I should have elaborated.  Citing Fox proves nothing.  It's
like citing Olson.  Nothing they say can be relied upon due to their
extreme BFR (bullshit to fact ratio).

>> Property deeds reveal only the purchase price and/or appraised
>> value. They rarely tell how much equity there is.
>
> i didnt mention equity, i stated _assets_...

And I'm saying that means nothing.  Assets are only one piece of the
financial picture.  Without knowing his debt level, knowing the value
of his home tells you almost nothing about his ability to pay.  BTW,
it's worth noting that we're not talking about a family claiming
indigence.  This is a middle class family with extraordinary health
care costs due to a child's illness.  Their situation is common
enough that it affects the community at large (in this case, the
country).

> if you can afford to make the payments on a half million dollars
> worth of assets, you can afford the premiums for health insurance.
> the poster-child was _competely_ discredited.

More accurately, the hard-line, right-wing idiots attacked and
maligned the child and his family rather than deal with the fact that
there is a need to extend the medical assistance program to help them
and tens of thousands of others like them.  In typical form, scum
like Limbaugh attack a sick American child and then turn around and
call themselves patriots.

>> Bush comitted treason by lying to the nation in order to get us
>> into his private war.
>
> substantiate this...

That's been proven so well that by now even you should know it.

> show me where he committed treason and tell me why he hasnt been
> impeached over it.

His entire administration has been treasonous from the get go.  The
reason he hasn't been impeached is the Democrats haven't the guts to
take him on and the Republicans are too dishonest to go along with
it.  No one died when Clinton lied.  Your boy murdered thousands of
American troops -- far more than Bin Laden.

> besides, there _have_ been WMDs found...

Oh, bullshit!  Saddam had as many WMDs as Olson has flight hours --
zilch!

> iraq had _months_ to move them and hide them...

Funny how in all the years we've been there not one has been found,
yet Saddam couldn't even hide himself or his idiot sons.  Our
military has found everyone and everything the White Hose wanted
found.  Note that when they had Bin Laden surrounded they let him go
so there'd still be a bogeyman out there to use in their fear
mongering campaign.

> just because we havent found them all does not mean they dont
> exist.

We haven't found *any* because they don't exist.  Remember Cheney's
bullshit story about mobile chem labs?  Before he told it the CIA
told him the story was bogus.  Remember the aluminum tubes nonsense?
Before Bush cited it our own intel and those of our then remaining
allies all told him they weren't WMD.  Bush/Cheney went right ahead
and lied so they could go to war.

>> Kerry is a decorated veteran who earned his medals for acts of
>> bravery under fire.
>
> are you even aware of his "injuries".  wasnt one treated literally
> with a band-aid?

Are you aware of his heroics?  Kerry himself stated that his injuries
were minor (although the last one did cause pain for some years after
the war).  It wasn't his injuries that won him the silver star.

>> As to Kerry's statements to Congress, he spoke the truth about
>> atrocities comitted by American soldiers in Vietnam.
>
> the only "atrocity" is that we were there to begin with.....ok, one
> more.  the true atrocity is that our military wasnt allowed to win
> the war thanks to the bleeding heart liberals back home.

On those points we agree completely.  However, there were other
atrocities.  Do you recall the My Lai massacre in 1968?  The
investigation afterward reveled widespread failures of command which
led to the massacre.  Numerous reports of other atrocities surfaced
during the course of the war.  Most were quashed.  Troops who spoke
up were punished by superiors.  If this sounds like what's happening
today it's only because it is happening.  Bush War II is being run so
badly and so completely without justification, the troops so poorly
outfitted that massacres similar to My Lai in all but scope happen
regularly.  Of course, Bush II has outdone even the worst in Vietnam
(from whence he ran and hid) by hiring a bunch of Blackwater thugs to
commit the worst atrocities.

>> We have long since learned that those atrocities were real and,
>> though not common, far from rare.
>
> .....such as?

See above.

>> You doubt she's the most electable candidate among the Democratic
>> line-up or you doubt she'll win against a Republican?
>
> i do not believe she is electable...

I don't know for sure but it looks to me as though she can beat any
of the current Republican crop.

> she may get the democratic nomination, but only because the
> democrats have nobody of merit to run against her...

Actually, Obama is probably the smartest and most genuine of all
candidates on both sides.  He'd certainly make an excellent
president.  Considering he'd e following a guy with the brains of a
turnip, he would at least appear beyond brilliant.  :^)

> the closest thing the democrats have right now on a man of
> integrity would be joe lieberman...

Lieberman is indeed a man of integrity.  Unfortunately, he has been
snowed by the Bush lies about Iraq and that makes him completely
unelectable.  No one who supports BWII will ever again sit in the
oval office.

> but i do not believe a jew is electable either.  racism isnt what
> will keep obama from being electable, but i do believe it would
> hold back lieberman who is the only democrat i would even consider
> supporting (but couldnt due to his anti-gun history).

I guess you'll not vote for me either then.  I want to ban all guns
from Earth and issue everyone water pistols but all these armies
around the world refuse to go along with my plan.

>> Sure, as soon as you show me where in the "founding documents" it
>> says we need drivers' licenses.
>
> stop with the red herrings.  i have _never_ suggested that anyone
> is ENTITLED to a drivers license.

I didn't say anything about being entitled to a driver's license.
The point is the founders made no mention of it.  They also made no
mention of social security, the Air Force or the FAA, but those are
important elements of modern life in the US.

> you on the other hand, are stating that americans are ENTITLED to
> health care and im simply asking you to substantiate that
> statement.

Correction.  I'm stating that American *children* are just as
entitled to health care as they are to education.  In this country
nothinking person doubts that all children deserve an education and
that the government should pay for it.  We do this because as a
nation we agree that "all men are created equal" and deserve an equal
chance at a decent life.  Yet without proper health care children
fare far worse than those with poor education.

> ....we both know you cannot.

I just did.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

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