Re: OT: Physicians for a National Health Program

["Just Looking" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx>]

> During the French Revolution, the Committee for Public Safety >thought
very much like you do...

Not only have you been drinking Bass' Kool Aid, now you're going to get Pete
to tell us how misunderstood Maximilien Robespierre was as well as all the
other goofy Frenchmen.. Beside Robespierre was master of the Terror, not the
torture. Similar but not the same.

>All "brown people" aren't Muslims.

Around here they are mostly Catholic and Mexican-American or  Mexican
tourists, or Mexicans otherwise looking for work.  Corra le! Immigración!
Rápido!



"Frank Olson" <use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:VjS9j.1351$pr3.393@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> JoeRaisin wrote:
> > Jim wrote:
> >> On Dec 17, 2:49?pm, JoeRaisin <joerai...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>> Which means, that the person who is being interrogated can anticipate
> >>>> it being repeated if they don't tell the truth. Which says, that if
> >>>> they've got any sense at all, they'll tell the truth the first time
> >>>> around.
> >>>> Sounds pretty humane to me.
> >>> My point was about the person who does not have the information the
> >>> interrogator is looking for. ?At what point do you decide that the
> >>> person just doesn't know.-
> >>
> >> It really doesn't matter ..... does it?
> >> I mean, if the guy was a good guy to begin with, he wouldn't be in the
> >> position that he's in.
>
> During the French Revolution, the Committee for Public Safety thought
> very much like you do...  It eventually lead to "trials" that lasted
> less than fifteen minutes and pretty well guaranteed a death sentence.
> They were guillotining children under the age of four for Christ sake!
> Our system of justice (while flawed I grant you) presumes innocence
> until proven guilty.  This isn't a "witch hunt", Jim, and to my way of
> thinking (as a Christian as well as a guy who's pretty well voted
> "Conservative" all of his life) you can't paint everyone with the same
> brush.  A Muslim is not a Jihadist Extremist.  All "brown people" aren't
> Muslims.
>
> America went into Iraq illegally.  You haven't found a single WMD.  You
> simply can't invade a sovereign state let alone do so on some made up
> charge.  It's no different than what Hitler did in the Sudetenland,
> Poland, and Austria.  Iraq under Hussein was a terrible place to live if
> you weren't the "right kind" of Muslim.  You've left a legacy of pain
> and suffering that overshadows everything these people have been through
> before and the presence of your military only heightens their fear and
> loathing.  You also have to remember that they think differently than we
> do.  This combination will serve to negate any "good works" you do.
>
>
> >> He may or may not know specifically what the
> >> interrogators are looking for but he's going to spill whatever it is
> >> he does know and if he doesn't know what they want to know, it won't
> >> damage him permanently ........ as compared to the beating him or or
> >> putting burning matches under his fingernails or electrodes attached
> >> to his scrotum.
> >> It ......STILL sounds pretty ok with me.
>
> "Torture" is torture.  It's unconstitutional.  You have to lead by
> example.  You have to act honourably and with respect.  Justice at the
> end of a cannon isn't justice and it's damned difficult to call it a
> "liberation".
>
>
> >>
> >> If they waterboard 10 people and no one gives any good
> >> information ....send them back to the stockade and wait for a day or
> >> so, for the description of what happened to get around and then take
> >> 10 new ones. You'll see how many start to "remember" things. The
> >> threat of a dire circumstance is more powerfull than the actual
> >> event ...........I'll bet.
> >>
> >> Seems like if information is vital and we can get it by this technique
> >> rather than maming and harming someone permanently it should
> >> acceptable. Hey .... this is war ...... remember!
>
> With whom are you "at war" with?  How many innocent people are you going
> to "waterboard" and how do you determine their innocence if they will
> confess to anything you ask just to make it stop?
>
>
> >> Remember 9/11?
>
> I do.  I also notice that many websites have removed the memorial
> ribbon.  A good friend of mine perished in the WTC.  He worked for an
> insurance brokerage.
>
>
> >> I don't remember any Islamist protesting that killing 3000 innocent
> >> people might just be a little .....errrr too much.
>
> But many did.  Many were horrified by what happened.  How many innocent
> "Islamists" were on board the fatal flights (or in the buildings)?  This
> was an act of terrorism perpetrated by people that had more than a few
> screws loose.  We allowed them into the country and we trained them to
> fly those jets.  No one raised the alarm when the idiots responsible
> made it clear they didn't want to follow the normal course of
> instruction.  We *KNEW* there was a risk that a terrorist could
> commandeer an aircraft and turn it into a manned missile and we did
> *NOTHING*.  The traveling public would have rigorously protested the
> presence of "Sky Marshalls" before 911.  It was unthinkable to any of us
> that a reasonable person would even contemplate doing something like this.
>
>
> >>
> >> Remember the people they televised as their heads where removed?
> >> I don't remember anyone stopping these people and protesting that
> >> maybe they should just chop off a finger.
>
> How do you "stop" someone from doing this?  How do you stop someone like
> "Robert Pickton", "Bill Gacy", "Charles Manson"?  Timothy McVeigh?
>
>
> >>
> >> We've got to get out of this mode where we think that if we treat our
> >> enemies humanely that they'll like us better.
>
> Who's the "enemy"?  How do you positively identify them?
>
>
> >> Or that  someone else
> >> will like us better. Or that "we're better than that" Our enemies
> >> DON'T CARE if we're better than or worse than whatever!
>
> No, but we can make "more enemies" quite easily.  You can't eliminate
> terrorism.  The Israelis have tried for years.  It's a clash of
> philosophies that's responsible for this.  That and the feeling of total
> helplessness.  Pull out of Iraq.  Don't let this turn into another
> Vietnam.  Bring our troops home.  These people don't want us (or our
> help).  Let's concentrate on improving our own lives.  Spend the
> billions of dollars we're spending in Iraq on a NATIONAL HEALTH PROGRAM,
> securing our borders, getting rid of the criminal organizations that are
> corrupting our children (and killing them).  Let's put our best efforts
> into something that *WE* will actually benefit from.