Re: OT: Physicians for a National Health Program

[JoeRaisin <joeraisin@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Jim wrote:
> On Dec 17, 2:49�pm, JoeRaisin <joerai...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Which means, that the person who is being interrogated can anticipate
>>> it being repeated if they don't tell the truth. Which says, that if
>>> they've got any sense at all, they'll tell the truth the first time
>>> around.
>>> Sounds pretty humane to me.
>> My point was about the person who does not have the information the
>> interrogator is looking for. �At what point do you decide that the
>> person just doesn't know.-
>
> It really doesn't matter ..... does it?
> I mean, if the guy was a good guy to begin with, he wouldn't be in the
> position that he's in. He may or may not know specifically what the
> interrogators are looking for but he's going to spill whatever it is
> he does know and if he doesn't know what they want to know, it won't
> damage him permanently ........ as compared to the beating him or or
> putting burning matches under his fingernails or electrodes attached
> to his scrotum.
> It ......STILL sounds pretty ok with me.
>
> If they waterboard 10 people and no one gives any good
> information ....send them back to the stockade and wait for a day or
> so, for the description of what happened to get around and then take
> 10 new ones. You'll see how many start to "remember" things. The
> threat of a dire circumstance is more powerfull than the actual
> event ...........I'll bet.
>
> Seems like if information is vital and we can get it by this technique
> rather than maming and harming someone permanently it should
> acceptable. Hey .... this is war ...... remember!
> Remember 9/11?
> I don't remember any Islamist protesting that killing 3000 innocent
> people might just be a little .....errrr too much.
>
> Remember the people they televised as their heads where removed?
> I don't remember anyone stopping these people and protesting that
> maybe they should just chop off a finger.
>
> We've got to get out of this mode where we think that if we treat our
> enemies humanely that they'll like us better. Or that  someone else
> will like us better. Or that "we're better than that" Our enemies
> DON'T CARE if we're better than or worse than whatever!  They hate us
> and want us dead. And there are people in our govenment and our nation
> who actually CARE that they don't like us. JEEEEEzzzzze!  Our enemies
> have to be treated just the same way they would treat anyone of us.
> And in MY book .......... you have to treat them worse. You can't
> teach ANYONE a lesson to do or not do something, if you pussyfoot
> around trying to do only what everyone of 50 factions of thought ....
> think you should or shouldn't do. This is EXACTLY what happens in a
> committee. The larger the committee the longer it takes to make a
> decision because everybody has got to "contribute" what they thinks
> should happen. And ultimately, rather than making a decisive decision,
> a watered down, wishywashy, maybe is the result. There's this
> " feeling " in our society, ever since the Viet Nam war that everyone
> should have a say in how a war is fought or that a referendum vote
> should be taken prior to every govenment decision. Ya can't run a
> government or a war by committee. The fucking far left flower
> children, who are now in power, have propogated this movement into
> every faction of our government today. Harry Truman wouldn't stand a
> chance to survive today. The days of the strong and determined leaders
> are gone. I can only be happy that I wont be around to see what the
> results that this touchy feely govenment produce ..... that thinks
> that in a war, they can negotiate with terrorist and that we can't
> bomb a certain buliding, or can't go into a certain area, or can't
> tell people that would kill anyone of us in a blink of an eye, what to
> do or not do. George Bush is probably the least popular president in a
> long, long time. And although I don't agree with a lot of the things
> he HASN'T done, I've got to say that he's stayed the course, right or
> wrong, popular or not. He made his decisions and stuck with it through
> the worse onslaught of left wing bullshit that has ever existed. I
> know .... that if things actually turn for the better in this
> terrorist thing ......... or when the liberals finally outnumber the
> pragmatic thinkers in our nation, and the terrorist are given that
> chance to once again attack us directly.  that in 20 years or so,
> history will mark him as a hero ..... I hope I'm here to see it.
>
> Oh and talking about things turning for the better .... have you
> noticed the lack of news being reported in the media about Iraq?
> That's about the best testimonial I can imagine as to how much the
> media has tried it's very damnedest to bias the news against this
> administration. I just hope the public is taking notice. It's about
> the best eye opener I can imagine for all those people who sit there
> every nite and read the newspapers and watch the network news. There's
> got to be a whole hell of a lot of people wondering how come there's
> nothing happening in Iraq anymore?
>
>  Hmmmmmmm!  wait a minute  ..... lets see now ..... if before .....
> all we got is BAD news and now we're not getting ANY news .........
> could it be that ...?
> Hmmm Hmmmm Hmmmmmmm!


I'm not saying we should coddle these jerks.

For the record I think we are doing the right thing in Iraq - surge
should have started sooner but I think we need to stay until the Iraq
Government is stable - even then we should put a base in the area.

We don't use such treatment in law enforcement because, like lie
detectors, the information is not reliable.

In the event that you know what information you are looking for and you
know the subject does have that information it can be effective but it
is next to useless as a 'fishing' tool.