Re: Florida Statute According to RLB

["tourman" <rh.campbell@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> >> I don't care much about proprietary
> >> panels since I usually just replace
> >> them. I don't unlock panels either.
> >> If a customer wants that I send them
> >> to Bob Campbell or Jim Rojas. It's
> >> not worth my time and trouble to get
> >> set up and learn the procedures for
> >> that.
>
> > Proprietary -  : one that possesses, owns,
> > or holds exclusive right to something...
>
> OK, we're talking about two different things.  By "proprietary" I mean junk like Sonitrol panels that no one else can service.  You
> mean panels with proprietary information in them.  I understand your position and I also understand Bob's.  (No one understands Jim
> Rojas, but that's because his voice is muffled by all that junk in his garage:)).

RHC: Well, since I'm being drawn into this discussion, I'll state my
position in the clearest possible terms. What I and several others do
is to simply default panels back to factory thathave been locked in
software. ALL information disappears when that is done, proprietary and
otherwise, and what the client receives in return for a few bucks is a
panel which is as good as factory new - period - and with all the
factory new information in it. No one sends us true proprietary panels,
because defaulting them back to factory would serve no real purpose.
They would still be unusable on any other monitoring station or with
any other company other than the one that they were originally set up
to work with So why bother with them ? For example, Merlin is a
proprietary Paradox board, built for (I think) Microtech in Toronto.
When I get them in as part of a bulk purchase of boards, they go
straight in the garbage. Other than the fuse on board and the leads,
they are useless material to anyone. Nor has anyone every sent me one
for unlocking.

Let me also set the record straight. Unlocking boards is not wrong in
any sense of the word. It's simply a unique service available to anyone
who wants it. Of course there is no way to really know if a board is
stolen, or the unlocking is being done on a board which is rightfully
not paid for, or is still under contract. That's between the two
companies in question as RLB points out!  But I do know that the
majority of boards that come my way for that service come from a number
of large, reputable customers. The many incidental ones I get come from
homeowners who in more than a couple of cases have had the experience
of buying a home with a fully paid for alarm, and finding the original
company won't unlock it unless they  give in to extortion (sign a long
term contract and we'll do it for you kind of thing...).  And you know
how I feel about that shit !!! Or often the original dealer has
disappeared and simply cannot be traced.

Both DSC and Paradox are well aware I do this up here in Canada. I've
spoken to representatives from both companies that I know on more than
one occasion about it. Several of the wholesalers even refer local
business to me as it comes to them from other buying dealers. Legally,
there is nothing wrong with it. I'm not reverse engineering anything,
and I can assure you, if the factories felt there was any wrongdoing
here, they would take action on it. At most, they might be annoyed that
I would be taking sales away from them for boards that might otherwise
need to replaced with new ones. In a lot of cases, I am able to put
back in service, boards which are not available from the factory
anymore because they are no longer made (DSC Classic series). Frankly,
in balance, I am sure I end up undoing more real "wrongs" than I do
creating any injustices. And I make a very small amount of money for
the service in the process (and when did anyone here ever object to
that !!...hell...if I worked it out .. hours of experimentation, cost
of equipment purchased and custom built, I'm probably working at about
two cents an hour.....)

And frankly, when it comes right down to it, I don't give a tinkers
damn what anyone thinks either. I am an honest person and I wouldn't
knowingly do something that would ever take food out of another honest
dealer's mouth (and you'll just have to take my word for that...) I got
into this some years ago because when I first started in business, I
had customers come to me with locked boards, and the companies wouldn't
unlock them. In one case, I was there when they laughed at the
homeowner /alarm owner and hung up in his ear !!  That didn't sit too
well with me....

I have every intention of learning how to do a lot of other makes as
well in spite of the large investment in time and energy this will take
! The only ones who would ever have anything to fear are the unethical
dealers who lock fully paid for and fully customer owned boards and
refuse to give up control when appropriate to the customer.  And they
are in a very small minority as we all know. Frankly, I don't give a
shit about them; the industry would be better off without them (I was
pleased to see the biggest offender in Ottawa recently sold his
company) Frankly, the whole issue is a "storm in a teacup"
>
> > What they are doing is wrong. Paint it,
> > polish it, wrap it up anyway you'd like
> > but they are wrong.
>
> I guess they feel differently that if the customer comes to them with an unusable panel that has been locked out it's up to the
> customer and whoever he bought the panel from to decide whose property the panel is.  If it's fully paid for, I agree that it's the
> customer's property.  If not, Jim and Bob have no way of knowing that.  They are providing service to person in possession of the
> device.
>
> I think a fair analogy is the fellow who drives into a service garage.  He asks the mechanic to fix his car because the alarm is
> screwed up.  The mechanic doesn't really know if he stole the car or paid for it.  He fixes the alarm so the customer can use his
> car again.  If it was stolen, it is the responsibility of the proper owner to persue the matter with the police.  In the case of an
> alarm system the dealer who sold or leased it has the option to persue the errant client in court.

RHC: Another analogy is the customer who goes into a car dealership and
buys a car. He pays for it and walks out. When it needs service, he
finds the hood is completely locked, and he has to go back to the
selling dealer even for an oil change. Then once his payments are over,
he is still forced to go there whether he wants to or not. I've never
seen a dealer do either....

Apparently though, there IS a real life issue much the same as this
between the large automotive makers and the independant garages with
the rights to computer diagnostic information. Automakers don't want
the independants to have access to information they must have to
properly diagnose and service today's latest high tech cars. That
battle is still raging on....May the little guys win....

RHC