Re: Florida Statute According to RLB

["Bob Worthy" <securinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Si Ballenger" <shb*NO*SPAM*@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:4591593e.212730250@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 09:44:09 -0500, "Bob Worthy"
> <securinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >You are in the wrong Part of the State Statute. Your quotes are coming
from
> >489 Part I. That does not apply to the statute that governs our industy.
> >When you do that, it doesn't lend any credibility to your knowledge on
the
> >subject.
>
> I responded to the statute that was being quoted by the poster.

Si,

The State Statute that govern alarm system activities is F.S. Chapter 489
Part II, as well as, a Rules Chapter, which I will let RLB find for himself
and a Florida Administrative Code Chapter of the Florida Statutes. There is
also the Uniform Building Code and Florida Fire Pervention Code and the
State Fire Marshals Statute. These are also enforced by the Electrical
Contractors Licensing Board of the Department of Business and Professional
Regulation along with interrelated Regulatory Agencies like the Department
of State, Department of Financial Services, the IRS, and the State
Department of Revenue.You quoted out of Chapter 489 Part I. This is the
statute that is governed by the Contractors Industry Licencing Board.
Although they are a State board, they are not even located in Tallahassee.
They are located in Jacksonville, FL. The CLIB is the board that handles all
other trades, ie plumbers, roofers, AC contractors, etc. They have nothing
to do with electrical or low voltage. Alarm contracting is very well defined
in the proper statute.

> Apparently you are easily confused and are having a loss of
> focus.

Not when I have been involved legislatively over the last nine years to
craft the statute as it is written today and to teach the statute to the
state investigators, as to how it pertains to our industry. Those that skim
read, don't deal with the Attorney General's office, think they are above
the law, and don't keep up with the changes after the legislative session is
over are the ones to be easily confused.

 >Post the link to the statute you are having issus with.

www.myflorida.com

 I
> would assume you are concerned with either alarm system
> installation or the sale of alarm services.

I am not concerned with any of it. People here seem to have missed the boat
if they think I give a rat's ass about RBL's activity.  I simply point out
he is wrong in his thinking. He can't agree without admitting he is wrong.
That is not in his personality. Most that want to do things properly will
ask questions, get references, do some homework as things do change. He is
in a state of denial.

 As far as
> installation is concerned, in the past if a person is not
> actually installing wiring in a structure, a license is not
> needed.

Wrong. The state law, dealing with alarms, came into effect back in the mid
80's and always included more than just installation. In fact, it started
out to be under the same statute as the security guards. Then it looked like
it would fall under the Board of Insurance and the State Fire Marshall's
Office, and at one time looked like the Secretary of State Office was going
to take it. It ended up were it should be and that is with the DBPR and the
ECLB. In 489 Part II, you will find that it says, whose business includes
the "ability", "experience" "science", and "skill" to "lay out", (all of
which RBL claims) fabricate, install, maintain, alter (which he does through
downloading), repair, monitor (which he was entering into contracts to do
right up to the time he was investigated), inspect, replace, or service for
compensation (which he claims is free but we all know nothing is free). It
is not limited to installing wire in a structure. See the word "inspect"? Do
you know that UL was required to get a license in florida last year to do
their inspections? They were required to and they did. We worked out
language in the law this year to exempt them when with a licensed person on
their inspections. The statute covers more than installations. You will also
find references to "design" in compliance with the law (code)(does he do
this with his clients?). You will also see where there is language that
pertains to the term contractor engaging in business under an express or
implied contract that undertakes, offers to undertake, purports to have the
capacity to to undertake. If you read it through, you will also read where
it talks about those that are performing duties, that will constitute
contracting, which are similar to those previously listed but include sales.
It once said on-site sales, but the on-site term was removed.(he even
admitted, just recently, that the reason he didn't need a license is because
he didn't go the clients home, so now what is his reason since the on-site
thing is gone) The problem that most have when they read things like this is
the word contractor. They think you must have a tool belt on to be one. In
reality it is anyone entering into a contract for compensation.
Contract-Contract(or) Is a contract just for installation, or can it be for
a design, lay out? Does the word alter in the statute pertain to moving a
motion or do you think it just might also include programming. (Just for
info. the state already issued a ceased and desist on an unlicensed person
doing that, of course RLB will call me a liar). Does a contact have to be
expressed or can it be implied?  If RLB actually did go into the telephone
marketing thing, I could go into the whole definition of subcontracting
and/or employee relationship thing, the part of the statute that requires
workers comp insurance, new employee hiring notification, registering with
the state, which would require a license anyway for the type business, the
whole corporation filing with partners, directors, qualifing agents,
notification of address changes etc. But I won't because I don't know if
that was just more RBL ego talk. The statute(s) and rules go on. But others
are right, its boring, and again I just do it to bust his ego a bit.

>Post your link.

www.myflorida.com

 Again, why don't you notify the Florida
> law enforcement to resolve your issue?. ;)

Because I don't have an issue. I really don't give two hoots. I just think
he needs to be outed when he climbs up on his pedistal. Read the statute. I
am sure you will say, yep, there just might be something here after all. But
than again, does anyone really care? The general consenses is to drop it, so
I will only post about it if ever asked.