Re: Esprit 728 keypads

[mleuck <m.leuck@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Feb 24, 8:30=A0pm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 9:02=A0pm, mleuck <m.le...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 24, 5:30=A0pm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 24, 1:44=A0pm, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 24, 9:13 am, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > > RHC: I actually wrote the president of Paradox about this issue o=
f non
> > > > > compatibility. Needless to say, I didn't even get the courtesy of=
 a
> > > > > reply.
>
> > > > > In speaking with others within the company, the whole idea of bac=
kward
> > > > > compatibility was "poo pooed" as a non issue, and not even practi=
cal
> > > > > if they plan to be innovative in their development of new product=
s for
> > > > > the market.This is classic big company "bullshit" thinking -sell =
like
> > > > > hell and forget support.!!!! Who the hell do they think thieir
> > > > > customers are??? Piss dealers off and they doom themselves in the=
 long
> > > > > run
>
> > > > > One thing I have noticed in this industry, most alarm people are =
quite
> > > > > "reactionary" and somewhat unforgiving of companies that mess wit=
h
> > > > > their business. All it takes is one bad experience with a comany'=
s
> > > > > products and they remember forever - even after the original prob=
lem
> > > > > has been resolved.
>
> > > > > Frankly, if they didn't make such good products, I would consider
> > > > > going back to DSC for my installations. As it is, I do more DSC
> > > > > installs now than I had ever planned to do......
>
> > > > > Paradox, I hope you're listening (but then you have to care as
> > > > > well.....)-
>
> > > > I'm sure that everyone is aware that this is not a new "problem" th=
at
> > > > every manufacturer has to deal with.
>
> > > > There's a point that every manufacturer has to decide upon where th=
ey
> > > > break the line. They can't keep making product backward compatable
> > > > forever. It becomes increasingly more expensive to design in backwa=
rd
> > > > compatability as time moves on. It doesn't make sense to make a new
> > > > product more expensive for that diminishing quantity of product in =
the
> > > > field and the fewer and fewer installers that want to support them.
> > > > There seems to be something in some installers book of rules that s=
ays
> > > > that a manufacturer has an obligation to produce a =A0product that =
has
> > > > an eternal life expectancy and period of support. In reality they
> > > > don't. And it's actually a marketing decision as well as bottom lin=
e.
> > > > Their dilemma is ..... How many installers are we going to lose or
> > > > piss off or please by the increased cost of new design that include=
s
> > > > backward compatability .... versus the number of installers we're
> > > > going tolose or piss off by cutting off backward compatability? =A0=
Also
> > > > in consideration of pricing new product and adding features to meet
> > > > compitition, do we eliminate new inovations in new products in favo=
r
> > > > of providing backward compatability?
>
> > > > Every manufacturer will draw a different line.
>
> > > > As for me, I think about 10 years back is good enough. To off-set
> > > > that, I keep a few of each of old equipment that I've pulled out, t=
hat
> > > > I think I might be able to use in the future. I keep programing chi=
ps
> > > > and used keypads mostly and some panels. =A0And, if it so happens t=
hat I
> > > > don't have the item that's needed, =A0then the client will just hav=
e to
> > > > bite the bullet and get something new. Could I lose an account over
> > > > it? Yeah, sometimes. But if it's a real hardship case, there are
> > > > panels out now that are inexpensive enough that will take the place=
 of
> > > > some of this old equipment very easily. In most of these instances,=
 if
> > > > I don't have the necessary part, I''ll just switch out the equipmen=
t
> > > > for cost, just to help out. These are usually retired folks or wido=
wed
> > > > singles that are on limited income.
>
> > > > To me, this is not a big issue but I can appriciate that it could b=
e
> > > > for larger companys.
>
> > > RHC: Jim, I understand the the rational =A0behind what both you and M=
ark
> > > are saying, and I don't disagree in those cases. You are talking
> > > compatibility for some ten years here; however, with Paradox, we are
> > > talking only a couple of years at most. For example, they brought out
> > > the Spectra line 1728/1738 panels and they were latest and greatest
> > > for only about two years. Then they announced the newer Magellan
> > > 5000/6000/7000 series, which looked identical to the older line, but
> > > were not in any way compatible. Even the memory key being used for th=
e
> > > new line is different from the old. The keypads are not compatible,
> > > nor are the expander boards....nothing. AND they stopped production
> > > totally of the older equipment totally, so nothing is now available t=
o
> > > buy to replace boards or keypads that are defective.
>
> > > Two years is not an acceptable time for this kind of thing to happen
> > > in my opinion.There are a number of other products they have done thi=
s
> > > with as well
>
> > I can understand your anger at that, what has always confused me about
> > Paradox was the sheer number of panels they have, I thought the
> > Magellan was the all in one system but it appears to also be a
> > standard panel?
>
> RHC: Magellan is an all in one device, but Magellan is the name of a
> line of panels including the SP series of devices and also wireless
> devices. Its kinda confusing actually They have the SP5000, 5050, 6000
> and 7000 panels which are their standard (right now). If they screw
> with these like they did with the Spectra series, I'm gone: they're
> history......

So do these replace the Spectra or add to the lineup?