Re: Wire type for peripherals on residential burg/fire panels

[Effenpig1 <dirtyspicevent@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Dec 19, 11:12=A0pm, jewellfish <jewellf...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Dec 19, 7:53=A0pm, Effenpig1 <dirtyspicev...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 19, 10:49=A0am, Frank Olson
>
> > <use_the_email_li...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Kid wrote:
> > > > "Frank Olson" <use_the_email_li...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in=
 message
> > > >news:0n%Wm.964$pA1.831@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >> Kid wrote:
> > > >>> if there is a fire panic button on the keypad then there is fire
> > > >>> protection.
> > > >> "Fire protection" isn't a "button" you have to be awake (or on the
> > > >> premises) to use. =A0A sprinkler system is "protection". =A0A smok=
e detector
> > > >> is "protection".
>
> > > > no, that is detection. =A0and if you use the fire button the fire t=
rucks will
> > > > roll. =A0still have to use fire wire if you use the fire button for=
 fire
> > > > protection is all I was saying. =A0but feel free not to and then yo=
u can tell
> > > > the inspector 'your' theory when he wants to know why you aren't wi=
thin
> > > > code..
>
> > > Sorry. =A0When I think of "protection" I also think "detection" (you =
can't
> > > have one without the other in my book). =A0You can't "protect" yourse=
lf
> > > with a button (and if the system's not monitored then the trucks won'=
t
> > > be "rolling"). =A0Taking your response one step further, I take it yo=
u
> > > would consider a cell phone or land line as better "fire protection" =
-
> > > you call 911 and achieve the same purpose as the button on a monitore=
d
> > > alarm - only you get a faster response.
>
> > > In BC, residential security systems aren't considered "fire alarm
> > > systems" so the Canadian installation standard (CAN/ULC-S524) doesn't
> > > apply. =A0And some alarmco's in the lower mainland don't even pull
> > > permits. =A0In fact they rarely install fire detection devices proper=
ly.
> > > On many take-overs we've done, I've seen "T" tapped smokes, EOL's acr=
oss
> > > programmed fire zones IN THE CAN, four wire smokes wired using the
> > > normally closed contacts, etc. =A0It's a real "dogs breakfast" here.
>
> > > And no one has yet been able to show me the section of NFPA that stat=
es
> > > a security/burg system becomes a fire alarm system when you install a
> > > smoke detector (or wire up to relay contacts on a 110VAC smoke alarm)=
.
>
> > So is it your opinion that it is not-necessary to use fire wire for
> > anything other than the detection devices themselves?
>
> > Dogs breakfast ????? =A0Is that a poo reference?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> NEC70, Article 760 allows for the substitution of CMP and similiar for
> use in fire alarm systems unless local codes prevent it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jewellfish

Not only that, but 760-61 (b) exception 2 states FLP can be
substituted for FPLR in 1 and 2 family dwellings for . 760-61 (table-
d) shows that CM can be substituted for FPL. Every standard 22/2 and
22/4 burg wire I've ever used carried at least a CM rating.

So in reality, it would seem just about any standard CM wire is fine
for fire devices in residential 1 and 2 family dwellings ( as long as
you stay out of ducts and plenums).

I'm still sticking with FPL or FPLR, don't have to worry about where I
can and can't run it, and people are less likely to mess with red wire
( I hope).