Re: Need for pool

[Frank Olson <use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Robert L Bass wrote:
> "Bob Worthy" wrote:
>>
>> "Frank Olson" wrote:
>>
>>  I wonder how many of the systems *you* sell get "red
>>> tagged" for non-compliant smokes?
>
> So far, none.  We already know that Olson has no problem with that since
> he never installed anything.

"You have no idea how many inspectors I know."  "Again, you have no idea
who I speak to now or with whom I had dealings then."


>
>> DIYER's pulling permits? I wonder how many of the systems he sells get
>> inspected. I will bet there is about zero time spent talking about the
>> requirements of permits during his sales process. I have never visited
>> his
>> website. Is there anything notices there at all about permitting and
>> inspections throught the local juridicitons.

None what-so-ever.  There's also no reference sheet that would allow the
DIYer to purchase the correct two wire smokes with the panels he sells.


>
> DIYers?  How about so-called "professional" installers?  I spent 24
> years running a small, central station alarm company.  We pulled permits
> in every town that required them.

Sure you did.


> A few rural towns in CT didn't but
> most required a permit.  I also pulled permits when we took over
> commercial fire alarms.  Very often there would be a surprised look on
> the clerk's face followed by, "That place has an alarm?  We don't have a
> record of any permit there."  You see, almost none of the local alarm
> companies ever pull permits unless the job is new construction.  I
> seriously doubt Worthy pulls permits unless he knows he'll get caught.
>
> The funny thing is Olson whining about "non-compliant" smokes even
> though he has finally learned (from me) that the ones I sell are indeed
> compliant.

Nope.  They're not.  Of all the DSC panels Napco lists as compatible
with the Firewolf, the PC-4020 is the only one still being manufactured.
  The 5010 (832), 5020 (864) and 1555 have all been superseded by the
new "Power" series panels (and not ONE of them lists - or ever has
listed - the two wire Firewolf as remotely compatible).  Indeed, DSC,
has NEVER LISTED the two wire Napco Firewolf as compatible with their
systems.  No professional installer would ever use one as a consequence.


> He didn't even know how to check or where to look to find
> out which smoke detectors are listed for use with a specific panel.

I only reference the panel manufacturers compatibility listings.  They
are the *final* authority on what is (and is not) acceptable in the way
of two wire smoke detectors.


> Furthermore, he's so lacking in experience and knowledge that he didn't
> know (until I told him) that detector manufacturers, as well as panel
> manufacturers, can and do list smokes for use with control panels.  What
> a moron!

Indeed!  I won't install a smoke detector that isn't listed by the panel
manufacturer.  Tsk!!  I also sleep very well at night.


>
> As to notices regarding permitting, the process varies from town to
> town, county to county, state to state and by country as well.  It is
> impossible to provide accurate instructions for all locations.

Check...  And your website doesn't even provide such a disclaimer.  As
you have so often demonstrated, your knowledge of fire alarms, NEC, and
NFPA is sadly lacking.


> I check
> competitors' websites from time to time and have yet to find anyone
> offering accurate guidelines concerning permits.

Here's a simple guideline...

http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/buyingonline.htm