Re: Brinks vs. Tech-man.com

["Bob Worthy" <securinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> > "Robert L Bass"  wrote in message
> > > >> >> he goes there to make him look good and
> >> >> the rest of the industry look bad...
> >>
> >  You, Worthy, are no better with all your
> >> so-called "giggles and kicks."

Why would you post this directly at me when I didn't write what you are
responding to?

> > It is "kicks and giggles" by the way. That alone states that none of it
is
> > serious, but I guess that would probably be left to the reader to
decide.
> >
> I've gotten to know many manufacturers' reps and tech support
> staff as well as reps from virtually every major distributor in the
> industry.

I know that. These same folks and I have talked.

>Quite a few of them have lurked here for a while, but decided not
> to post due to all of the attacks.

That is understandable but lurkers are usually just that. They get what the
want without getting involved. It is a proven fact that only ten percent of
population get involved in anything but the other 90 percent still want to
know what is going on. So I will agree with you that they lurked and
probably still do but I can't agree with you for the reason they choose not
to post. Sorry :o]

 One or two have occasionally posted tech
> helps but after a while they left as well.

And they probably left the company too.

> You'd be surprised how many people in the trade read this newsgroup.

Possibly

>It's  far better known than you might think.

Which is a good thing. The more of this information that gets out the
better.


> The same applies to a lesser extent
> to the home automation newsgroup.

Understandable. It is a smaller part of the market.

 >Those who've been around longer will
> remember that Rick Helmke of HomeSeer and some of his employees used to
> contribute there.  Ask him why he no longer participates.  He'll tell you
in
> no uncertain terms and it has nothing to do with me posting.  He was
driven
> out, like most true industry professionals, by the antics of the same
group
> of people who post trash here.

It is a choice, no doubt. If they couldn't understand that there is no
control, and pick out what was important to them, then they made their
choice. Did they loose or did they gain by their decision? I don't know. Or
where they also some that got spanked for whatever reason? Sometimes the
chemistry just isn't there.

 One of Napco's tech support used to
> participate here as well; not anymore.

If he was telling people how to program "Go ahead make my day" in Napco
keypads, I can understand why.

>It's true whether you choose to
> believe it or not and it's your fault

You just said I was a relatively new comer to this group and I don't
recognize a single person you mentioned, so how could it be my fault? It
might have taken me 8 or 9 years of posting to be considered at fault for
anything.

> along with the other characters like
> Olson, Mugford, Jiminex, Leuck and Doug.

Yep, it is probably their fault. Go to your rooms!!

>> I think you may be confusing me with someone >>else.

> No, I'm not confusing you with anyone else.  You act like a schoolyard
> bully,

Just what is it that has given you that opinion? I know you won't/can't give
any examples but please do try. You probably misinterpret the messages as
being destructive rather than the intention of being constructive. You are
so gun shy about whatever is discussed with you that it is no wonder you
take everything as being negative.

thinking what you do here is hidden away in an obscure "chat room",

I know better

> but it's not.  Everything you say is viewed by tens of thousands of
people.
> It's not just see by folks searching Usenet either.  Google returns rlated
> newsgroyup threads as well as web pages even when people are onl searching
> the www.  Additionally, there are several websites that autmatically
archive
> this newsgroup, creating searchable html pages of every post.  Search
engine
> spiders crawl those sites.

OK. They do show the whole thread, correct?

 > When you post rude or denegrating comments about another dealer online

What dealer?

> you
> contribute to the poor image the industry has in the public eye.

Your opinion

> > If they appeared as "attacks" and were unwarranted,
> > I didn't see anything discrediting the response...
>
> I don't need to respond to your rude posts for them to appear rude.

Starting to sound like Rumsfield.

> Its what you say, not how I reply that marks the kind of person you are.

Exactly

  You're
> You're well-known in the trade and when you post garbage it makes you
*and* the
> trade look bad.

And being well known, folks know exactly where I am coming from. In many
cases there is no sugar coating and I am respected for that as well. Why is
it your the only one that considers what I post "garbage"?

> You can call it "giggles" all you want.  You still come
> across to outsiders as a buit of a jerk.

A what?

> Another example, far worse than you, of industry misbehavior is Mugford.

Industry misbehavior? If so, file a complaint.

 He
> He posts vulgar, personal attacks on another tradesman.

What other tradesman?

  When he tried (and you
> can deny this all you want but we both know it's true) to get me in
trouble
> with a false complaint to the licensing authority

No he didn't. I have told you before that it was not Norm. I know who did
it, I know why he did it. Did he talk to Norm, probably. And because of
Norm's position, alot of contractors talk to him. The only thing Norm could
have done was to tell the complaintant that he was talking to the wrong
agency and that if he wanted to make a complaint that he would have to go to
the another agency. It is the same message hundreds of other complaintants
have been told by many different ECLB board members over many years.
Standard message. What you are missing in this whole thing and of which I
tried to explain to you before, over and over and over, is that the ECLB is
not and cannot do anything to or for you. You are not a licensed contractor.
The board Norm sits on is the Electrical Contractors Licensing Board. (ECLB)
They have no jurisdiction over you because you do not have a license. They
only deal with licensed contractors PERIOD. The agency that paid you a visit
was from an entirely different governmental agency. Norm has nothing to do
with that agency's activities. The reason I know this is because I do work
with that agency periodically. I have conducted classes for them, done radio
shows with them, and have been part of setting up sting operations for
unlicensed activities in the past.What is there about this you do not
understand. The sooner you get over this thing the better. Again, Norm did
not order your investigation, he did not file the complaint, he does not
have any juridiction over your activities, and his seat on the board is not
one that deals with these complaints. You have the complaint, post it and I
will go over it step by step.

, all I had to do to get it
> summarily dismissed was show the agent the onlne record of Mugford's posts
> to this newsgroup and his "contributions" to Sabodish's hate website.

Baloney! Sounds good if that is what you want to believe, but I know why it
wasn't persued and that was fixed the next legislative session. Did you
forget what I do legislatively down here? By the way, that same state
attorney isn't working in that department anymore. She sort of quietly was
transfered to another area. Don't get excited, it wasn't because of your
case but an accumulation of a bunch of her decissions.

>The state agent was aghast!

Drama


>You and a few other nasty-mouthed perps

Confused again. I am not nasty-mouthed.

> fill the newsgroup with personal attacks, right-wing, racxist trash

Still confused. I don't post any of this.

>Do you think you'd stand a chance of being hired by that customer?

Yep, thousands of times.

> > There is mostly good communications on industry related issues and you
> > would
> > have to admitt that.
>
> No, there isn't.  The majority of posts here are either OT, offensive or
> both and you are partly responsible for that.

I always post to the topic being discussed at the time I chime in. It the
thread topic changed through the course of the thread, which happen often,
that is hardly my fault. Offensive would only be if one interpeted it that
way. I think you have a bit of paranoia going on. You seem to think that
every post is a personal attack but you forget or don't even realize how it
gets started. [sigh]

  You're nowhere near as bad

Well that's a plus


> Wrong.  Frequently, people who come here asking legitimate questions get
> attacked.

And someone picks it up and makes it right, unless there is an obvious
problem with the question. We have all seen it.

> but when you or anyone else
> responds to a newbie with rudeness,

I usually don't respond to newbies since my experience is more on the
business end of the trade. Unless it is business related I usually leave the
newbie questions to those that deal operationally on a day to day, since
those are the typical type questions. I don't try to be the guru when I know
there are others that are more qualified than I. And from time to time I
depend on their advice whether it is through the group or by email. It works
for me and I appreciate it.

 >you mark yourself as a jerk.

Again, you are confusing me with someone else because I just explained that
I don't respond to newbies and when I have it has been ligitimate.

> They just look like a bunch of inerudite bullies and because
> they claim to be "professionals" they make the profession look like a
bunch
> of fools.

I believe you have the right to your opinion. I don't think it will change
anything unless you are willing to institute the change. I told you earlier
that you have the ability to control this. It is you and you alone that will
have to decide if that will happen.

> > Freedom of Speech is wonderful thing and should
> > never be depressed...
>
> I think you meant suppressed.  :^)

Your right. Thank you, didn't catch it.

> We're not talking about freedom of speech.  You are free to post whatever
> you want.  I'm only suggesting that while you exercise your freedom you
also
> exercise self-restraint.  Do what you like.  It's your choice but make no
> mistake about it.  There are consequences.  You may not see it or even be
> aware of it (clearly the simple-minded here don't), but when you post
nasty
> comments about other tradesmen and when you respond rudely to visitors,
you
> hurt the industry.  This is an industry which you *claim* to care about.
> We'll see whether that's true by how you comport yourself.

Have you ever went back and re-read a thread that contains the comments your
referring to? I am talking all comments, yours included. Pick a nice juicy
one. Don't not read your comments because you think you know what you said.
Try it and get back with me. Not this one though since it has been rather
civil.

> > The unfortunate part is that you have lost the respect
> > of some of the regulars over the years....
>
> Nonsense!  Other than a few relative newcomers, most of the worst
offenders
> were here when I first came to this newsgroup.  They tried to keep me from
> posting under the mistaken impression that they could actually regulate an
> ALT newsgroup.

Could this be the real reason some left?

>There was a ridiculous effort to create a FAQ which was
> supposed to govern to govern who could say what.

Could this have been why they left?

>  When they realized there as
> nothing they could do to prevent me from advising DIY end users how to
> install their own alarms (they even tried to *prohibit* me mentioning my
own
> URL in my posts) they resorted to posting all kinds of personal attacks.

Maybe they did this rather than leaving. Remember I wasn't here so I don't
know.

> If you want an example of a freedom of speech battle, this was it.  I
> exercised my right to post advice to DIYers.

And you have obviously prevailed, but not without consequences.

> > What does that have to do with your direct post to me
> > or at least calling me out, about what I write?
>
> This is not just about you.

Thank God. As many times as you used the word "you" I started to get a
complex.

   There are no private conversations in Usenet.
> Whatever he posts affects the industry image.  The same applies to you.  I
> don't bother trying to have a reasoned conversation with Jiminex.  He's
not
> capable of it.  But you are.  I addressed you because I think you're adult
> enough to see what you're doing is wrong if you stop trying to defend
> yourself and think about it for a while.  I hope I'm right about that.


Well lets put it out there, since it went out anyway, one by one, and if I
am wrong, which you will need to tell me why you think I am wrong, as I
stated earlier I will correct it publically. How's  that. There may be
debate but we can keep it  civil.

>
> For clarity, I'm not accusing you of racism.

Thank you because you might have crossed a line if you did.

  This discussion is about the
> public misbehavbior of a group of people who have ruined this newsgroup.

Before you started posting and may have been lurking for a bit, how was the
newsgroup?

> Your part of this has been less severe than most but you contribute to the
> overall negative impression of the industry with personal snipes.

I will admit that I have taken some snipes. I even told you I would stop
unless you started back up, which others have also said, mainly Frank. Then
what did it I see about a month later, me thrown back into the mix during
one of your rants with the "Worthless" comment. Not that it bothers me, I
have heard it for near 55 years back in kindergarden. But, that is what I
said about you having control. The fire was out and you choose to throw the
log back on it.

 >You can
> continue trying to explain away what you're doing or you can carefully
> consider it ass perhaps change for the better.  It's up to you.

How do I take that comment and post it back at you? :o]