Re: It's me

["R.H.Campbell" <rh.campbell@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Well Tom, for all your banging on the keyboard, you did say a couple of
things that warrant comment !

It seems you forget (or don't realize) that most clients pay me far more for
installation of their systems than other dealers charge locally. That is why
they pay me less on the monthly ongoing, and get a more comprehensive
warranty and service package. But they still pay me; I or my son don't work
for free - never have and never will ! This doesn't make my client base more
or less upscale, or cheapskate in nature, just perhap more discerning of
their overall LONG TERM costs ! In fact, if you were comparing clientele,
although I certainaly can't prove it, I suspect that my client base is far
more intelligent, discerning, and probably educated than the client base of
a company that dealt in only the "no money down", "something for nothing"
systems.

I too share your abhorence of the cheapy installs by both the nationals and
the locals. I have to go out next week to look over a system that a client
has asked me to takeover, and I dread going. It was installed by a local
who's systems look like they have been installed by that proverbial chimp !
These days, I'm doing a major number of takeovers of large national
customers who have either been shafted service wise, or have fallen victim
to large nationals who can't seem to get their act together...you know, one
hand doesn't know what the other is doing internally in the company, and
everything falls apart for the client. Although national takeovers involve
higher prices, it usually revolves around service issues (J. Shoud, are you
noting this....)

Now as far as Cooper goes, he is a scammer pure and simple. We all know it,
so I'm not going to pussyfoot around him. Like you, I'll call it as I see
it. One look at his equipment and the nonsense he spouts should tell even a
first grader he and his equipment are crap ! Any one that buys that rubbish
deserves what they get.

RHC

"Where's my WEBTV?" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1132370708.129197.234670@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> R.H.Campbell wrote:
>> You know Tom, sometimes you can be downright entertaining ! I really
>> don't
>> want to "PLONK" you as you say; sometimes you and I can actually almost
>> agree on a few things. Your cash flow on your freeby installs isn't bad;
>> you're lucky you had a source of financing. Too many little guys try to
>> go
>> it alone financing it themselves and go tits up as a result. Glad to see
>> you
>> survived. I hope your attrition rate over the long is not too bad.<
>
> Yes Bob we can agree at times, but when you start talking business you
> stand where the buses don't run.
> I offered zero down systems in the late 90's. I no longer offer a zero
> down systems because I market more upscale clients. I still tend to
> believe that a marginal burglar system with proper fire protection is
> better than a full perimeter burg system with no fire so our emphasis
> is on fire. If the average crook thinks someone has an alarm he will
> break into a home that doesn't have one, but a fire doesn't give a
> rat's ass who has an alarm or not. From what I have experienced our
> industry spends too much energy and client funds throwing in full blown
> burg systems yet leaving the client vunerable to fire.
> To each his own.
>
>> I think my knowledge of this industry is quite up to scratch. Nor as you
>> keep assuming, do I have a problem with long term contracts in general;
>> just
>> when they are not called for...ie: when the customer has paid a full
>> price
>> up front (as all my clients do), or when the customer fully owns the
>> panel
>> outright (like takeovers). I personally believe they should be used only
>> to
>> pay for systems that are artificially low at the front end, which is (or
>> was) the big way to sell to cost conscious consumers.<
>
> Which is exactly what zero down systems were doing. Techs don't work
> for free, Bob. Equipment isn't donated by suppliers, and we don't drive
> cars that run on air. It cost money to install a system, and since we
> are in the business of turning a profit that leaves the client as the
> one footing the bill. If capitalism offends you then I'd suggest
> attending a Spartan Revival Festival.
>
> >But no matter how you
>> or the rest of the industry slice it, there is simply nothing in it for
>> the
>> client; it's all slanted towards the alarmco (other than Bob Lalonde's
>> approach which at least gives the client the benefit of some measure of
>> guaranteed rate over time, and that's the ONLY valid reason I've ever
>> heard
>> frankly).<
>
> Again, it is supposed to be slanted in favor of the company. That's why
> we are in BUSINESS. Jesus H Christ man do you sell, and install
> Multilock cylinders for $30.00 or do you like to profit? Did you run
> free emergency service calls on lockouts? Should I surf the web and
> find you an application for a membership into the Moonies?
>
>> I do honestly think that the drive for RMR has done nothing good
>> for our industry, since it has slanted things away from comprehensive
>> systems with better coverage. And maybe you are correct when you say this
>> is
>> partly my marketing gimmick, but why wouldn't I do this when no one else
>> does. It gives me a decided advantage over everyone else locally, and I
>> lose
>> little in doing so (I have a standing offer for my customer base at 30
>> times
>> monthly, which is close to what a 5 year contract is going for currently
>> hereabouts). So rather than scratch with the 100 or so other companies
>> trying to get that name on a long term contract, I can simply sit and
>> wait
>> for the phone to ring as word spreads! My biggest problem comes when
>> ex-ADT
>> clients don't believe I can do all I say at half the price they've been
>> paying all these years, and I have to sit down and explain the facts of
>> life
>> to them !! Once I explain the cash flow, they understand things and
>> usually
>> buy on.....<
>
> It seems that you deal with cheapskates. Hey more power to you, but I
> prefer to deal with someone who doesn't feel insulted when they have to
> pay for a product or service.
> If you have been offered 30x on accounts with no contracts please have
> that banana contact me ASAP as I have some lovely property in Atlantis
> for sale.
> As for RMR being a detriment I disagree to an extent.
> RMR is what keeps us afloat, yet it also keeps shady companies afloat.
> If you really want to see a change in the industry get the local
> legislature to penalize alarm companies for false alarms rather than
> the end user. Watch how quick we start to install quality systems, and
> making certain our customers are trained, and our technicians are
> competent. Watch how fast we change who we market for alarm systems,
> and who's contract we renew for service.
> Watch how fast companies like Protect America jump out of the business,
> or nationals use more discretion in choosing dealers. Watch how fast
> some of the quick buck artists find another industry to play in. Fining
> the end user doesn't do diddly dick in preventing false alarms. Even
> when the customers is 1000000% wrong it is still our fault for the
> false alarm.
> RMR wouldn't be such a bad thing then would it?
>
>> And as far as RLB's site goes, I see no hypocracy in his selling the all
>> in
>> one systems even though he says he doesn't like them, and wouldn't
>> install
>> them. I happen to agree with him, I wouldn't either. But the client is
>> the
>> one making the choice, so why wouldn't he put them on his site to give
>> his
>> clients freedom of choice. I have no doubt that if they were to call him
>> up
>> and ask his recommendation, it sure as hell wouldn't be one of these
>> squawk
>> boxes. But that's no reason why he shouldn't have a wide variety of
>> different makes and models of panels on his site. That's what any store
>> does
>> if they want to cater to the widest audience possible. And as we all
>> know,
>> he is running a store ! We can't on one hand promote the capitalistic
>> approach when it comes to our clients and on the other hand run him down
>> for
>> his variety of products on his site. THAT is hypocracy !!<
>
> No, Bass calling it junk when he didn't sell it and now pitching it to
> end users is hypocracy. Would you sell a LOXXON to an end user if they
> wanted to buy one?
> Why wouldn't Bass, if he was so honest & caring, explain to his clients
> that the system they are about to purchase is "junk"?
> He'd sell Patton's wind-up smoke detectors if he thought he'd make a
> buck.
> You constantly slam the nationals for peddling sub par systems, often
> saying they should be ashamed of doing so. Should Bass be ashamed of
> selling "junk" too?
> What is different from Bass' sales tactics, and those of the nationals
> that you attack?
> A liar is a liar is a liar.
>
>> I don't deal in personalities; that is not my purpose here. I don't like
>> or
>> dislike anyone here.<
>
> Strange, you seem to detest Cooper for his selling "junk"
>
> >Other than Mikey who happens to be a fellow dealer
>> locally, I have never met anyone here.<
>
> Mikey is probably one of the few here I think would be a blast to go
> drinking with (if I still drank)
>
>> I have spoken to a few of the folks
>> here...RLB and Jim Rojas both, as well as Irv Fisher who no longer is
>> part
>> of the ng. I'm no ones particular friend or enemy for that matter, and I
>> refuse to pass judgment on people that I haven't met, and in who's shoes
>> I
>> "haven't walked a mile" <
>
> Cooper
>
>> So if that makes me seeming to side with anyone,
>> you're simply wrong. (sometimes I know how Switzerland must have felt
>> during
>> WW II).<
>
> I'd say you're more like Ireland. You take a stand against terrorism
> yet you have no problem dealing with terrorists (IRA trained the PLO
> who in turn trained Al Qaeda..... and Ireland was a safe haven for
> Nazis).
>
>> And if you or anyone else sees that as hypocisy, then TOUGH SH*T ! <
>
> Forget how to spell SHIT? There's an I in it, Bob. Leaving the I out
> doesn't mean you didn't curse. Cursing can be fucking fun if you'd ever
> give it a god damn try.
>
>> (I worked alongside US Marines in Goose Bay, Labrador as a student for
>> quite
>> awhile, and if anyone can teach you how to swear, they can... I learned
>> from
>> the best !!). I prefer to deal strictly with issues and ....yes....I
>> don't
>> like crude people. I don't associate with them in real life and I have no
>> truck with them here.<
>
> And here I thought we were pals.
>
>
>> Frankly (and you can take this as gospel), I don't
>> give a tinkers damn what you or anyone else here thinks of me
>> personally.<
>
> Don't give a DEAD DOG'S DIRTY DICK sounds much better Bob. Try cursing.
> It doesn't bite.
>
>
>> I'll say my piece and you can agree or disagree - that is your and
>> everyone
>> else's option (that's what the hell a newsgroup is all about ). If you or
>> anyone else gets crude or ignorant, I simply tune you out.<
>
> Ah so now you will tune me out after posting how you thought it would
> be fun to stir the pot. You can tune me out from now till Kingdom come
> but that doesn't change the fact you speak with forked tongue when Bass
> is involved.
>
>
>> Life it too short <
>
> I think I read that book. Was it about a chain smoking midget with bird
> flu who tried working the counter at McDonalds where customers
> originally thought they were hearing voices until one day he reached up
> and showed them his little fingers? I believe I bought that at
> Waldenbooks on a buy one get 2 free deal. The other 2 books were about
> necrophelia. Maybe you've heard of them. Sex after Death, and How to
> get Laid in a Coffin?
>
>
>> to have to associate with people like that! . If I "plonk" someone, or
>> choose to stop debating the merits of a point of view, it's usually
>> because
>> I've said my piece and nothing I say from that point on is going to add
>> anything useful to the conversation. The other parties mind is made up,
>> and
>> that's ok too. But any further conversation means the thread usually
>> heads
>> downhill from there ! So I'm gone, pure and simple !. It's not a retreat;
>> just a recognition there is no further point to discussing that issue any
>> further !!<
>
> Hrmmmm getting kinda testy for someone who wanted to stir the pot. I
> guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.
>
>>
>> So I'll just hoist up my panties and retreat to the background quietly
>> once
>> again and enjoy the scenery.....toodles !!<
>
> That's "grab your skirt", Bob. Hoisting your panties is a visual I
> don't exactly care to think about. I'm sure there's a market out there
> for old dudes in panties but I aint standing on that line pal.
> On many things we share the same opinions, but I make no apologies for
> telling you when I disagree, and if my lack of social skills bothers
> you then tough. I will always be rude, crude, vulgar, and obnoxious,
> but I will never be a phony when I talk with you.
> I'd rather deal with someone blunt than someone who sugarcoats,
> wouldn't you?
>
>>
>> RHC
>>
>> "Where's my WEBTV?" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:1132190013.215755.224730@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >I believe you mean Zero down systems, Bob, and because I had a funding
>> > source, and due to the market leaning that way, they were easy to
>> > offer. At that time I was installing a LYNXREN with 2 doors, 1 motion,
>> > and a keyfob for zero down, while charging $24.99 per month for
>> > monitoring.
>> > Back then the LYNX kit had a cost of around $185.00, installers were
>> > earning $100.00 per basic, and sales commissions were $100.00 (hey they
>> > should all work for free, right?).
>> > The average lead cost (including rent, telephone, electric, insurance,
>> > workmen's comp, etc) was in the neighborhood of $200.00.
>> >
>> > So my out of pocket expense was $585.00, and the contract had the
>> > client paying $899.64. The bank was funding me roughly $750.00. Wow,
>> > what a huge and unfair profit margin huh? If you're selling an alarm
>> > where your out of pocket expense is $585.00 do you sell it for $385.00?
>> > Installing dealers are entitled to profit, and no matter how much you,
>> > and Pinky, refer to the IB (that means installing bunch) as thieves,
>> > you're still not going to get anyone to throw on Santa suits and start
>> > giving away the ranch.
>> >
>> > Now back when I was offering the LYNX your pal Bass was knocking
>> > self-contained systems, referring to them as junk, but he must have
>> > changed his tune because he now sells them on his website.
>> > The technology hasn't changed, so what other than an opportunity to
>> > profit caused Bass to suddenly offer this "junk" on his website?
>> >
>> > The difference between Bass and Cooper is Cooper is a blatant
>> > bullshitter from the word go, but Bass is a sneaky bastard, and people
>> > who take it upon themselves to trounce one scammer (Cooper), while
>> > remaining pals with another blatant scammer (Bass), are either too
>> > stupid to notice the similarities or they seriously lack the integrity
>> > it takes to admit the error and confront the problem.
>> >
>> > The difference between you and you is I am rude, crude, obnoxious,
>> > vulgar, and socially unacceptable but I tell it like it is, (whether
>> > you like it or not or whether you want to hear it or not) whereas you
>> > seem mannerly, polite, well-spoken (for a canuck), but your statements
>> > regarding installing companies, installers, and sales reps are totally
>> > absurd. Your knowledge of the industry is sorely lacking, and you have
>> > become the North American Paul using contracts in place of RFI.
>> > Yes, I hammer on Bass at any opportunity because it's entertaining, and
>> > I hope he never leaves. I seriously don't give a shit what he sells,
>> > and to whom, for any other purpose than to hammer him. Every thread
>> > he's involved in turns out to be a flame fest, and you often seem to
>> > find your way into the fray, so don't get your panties in a knot when
>> > someone calls you on the carpet for your hypocritical ways.
>> >
>> > Now grab your skirt heels and throw the old PLONK on me because that
>> > seems to be your happy little way of avoiding people who think you are
>> > a FUCKING (added that one because I know it's your favorite) goof at
>> > times.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > R.H.Campbell wrote:
>> >> Thanks Tom ! Coming from you, as I remember, the master of the free
>> >> system
>> >> sale, that is quite a compliment !
>> >>
>> >> Hey, this is fun ! Can I be the newsgroup bad boy....please, please !
>> >> Baiting the twits is such fun !!  If I could steal all of RLB's
>> >> thunder,
>> >> wouldn't that be a hoot!!!! (like the politician said, I don't care
>> >> what
>> >> they say about me as long as they're talking about me....)
>> >>
>> >> Ok guys ! Give it your best shot......:))))) (oh goody goody...)
>> >>
>> >> RHC
>> >>
>> >> "Where's my WEBTV?" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> news:1132112927.660742.127930@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> > As if anyone other than me would annoint WEBTV a decent ISP, as well
>> >> > as
>> >> > share my excellent command of the expletives you find so fucking
>> >> > offensive.
>> >> > Your wish for the end of aliases is about as likely to happen as the
>> >> > wish for you to stop pretending Bass is a contributor and not a
>> >> > soliciting scumbag. The group would be dull at best without his
>> >> > constant bullshit stories but when you portray yourself as an
>> >> > amateur
>> >> > consumer advocate you look like an idiot when you maintain a
>> >> > relationship with the biggest scam artist here while pretending as
>> >> > if
>> >> > he's just a misunderstood person.
>> >> > Your credibility is so shot it wouldn't surprise me if you were the
>> >> > Professor X your pal Cooper refers to.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > R.H.Campbell wrote:
>> >> >> Ah sorry guy ! I can never tell who the devil is behind all these
>> >> >> pseudonames. Thought it was you. I wish people would stop hiding
>> >> >> behind
>> >> >> all
>> >> >> these aliases. I don't know what purpose it serves other than to
>> >> >> confuse
>> >> >> people....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> RHC
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "G. Morgan" <alarmprosnail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:437a8623.8359890@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > That wasn't me you crazy Canuck!  That was your pal Tom (-Where's
>> >> >> > my
>> >> >> > WebTV-).
>> >> >
>> >
>