Re: Looking to purchase alarm system - suggestions?

[Crash Gordon® <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Sovereign...like Quebec eh?




"Frank Olson" <feolson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message =
news:L4RAe.1942589$Xk.1165862@xxxxxxxxxxx
|=20
| "no wires showing" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx> wrote in message=20
| news:1121142672.436956.68260@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
|=20
| >
| > Frankie you've been slamming nationals for years. Denial isn't a =
river
| > in Egypt.
|=20
| You're confusing me with someone else.  I've been a big supporter of =
the=20
| local ADT branch for years.
|=20
|=20
|=20
| >>I believe I said that (only in not so many words).<
| >
| > Next time use more words then. Dumb fckin Canadians always confusing
| > people.
|=20
| It's "Dumb fckin Amuricans" that can't read no-how...  Don't spell =
things=20
| right...  and still believe theres justification in invading a =
sovereign=20
| nation...
|=20
|=20
|=20
| >
| > Properly training the end user will reduce false alarms.
|=20
| Heh...  in your dreams...
|=20
| > Quality
| > equipment and fire rated wiring will also help.
|=20
| "Check" (on the quality equipment).  How will "fire rated wiring" =
help??
|=20
| > While some nationals
| > are absolute shitbags there are some who demand much higher =
standards
| > than any local I've ever seen.
|=20
| You've obviously never heard of a procedures manual...
|=20
|=20
| > If it came down to a choice between Joe Blow and Protect America I
| > would go with Joe Blow but if you're comparing Joe Blow to say =
Westec
| > then Westec is where my money is at.
|=20
| Really??  You were just slamming "Joe Blow".  There used to be a =
"Westec" in=20
| Edmonton, but they sold out to the Borg.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> "Well my friend has a Joe Blow alarm system, and they never had
| >> trouble"
| >
| >
| >
| >>Most people would interpret a statement like that to mean:
| >
| > - They're always "there" when you need them,
| > - Their equipment is top notch,
| > - They've never had a break-in (or the authorities responded to an
| > attempt
| > at one)<
| >
| > Frankie customers don't have a real clue as to the quality of their
| > service, and customers hate admitting they made a bad choice.
|=20
| Aux contraire, mon ami...  Customers know ze qualitez of their =
ser-rveese=20
| ver-r-ry well... (at least ours do).
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >
| >> Do we know if Joe Blow's system is functioning properly?
| >
| >
| >
| >>Do we know "the nationals" is??<
| >
| > Not with all of them. I've seen jumped zones on ADT panels just as =
many
| > times as I've seen jumped zones on the local company's panels.
|=20
| But you're "defending" a "national installation" over Joe Blows.  Make =
up=20
| your freekin' mind, ya damn Yank.  "We done found no weapons of mass=20
| destruction, but we done proved our weapons of mass destruction shure =
do=20
| work!"
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Does Joe Blow
| >> really tell his client's to test their system weekly?
| >
| >
| >>Checked your keypads lately??  It says "test system weekly" on most =
of=20
| >>them.<
| >
| > Know of many customers who actually do it?
|=20
| That's a personal choice.  Some can't be bothered... others take their =

| security far more seriously.
|=20
| > How many customers know to
| > look in the panel for jumped zones?
|=20
| Ummmm....  The ones that take their security far more seriously??
|=20
|=20
| > Come on down here and see what the "locals" offer. Windows & doors =
all
| > on the same zone because they're too cheap to buy an expander.
|=20
| At least they're protected.  It may be a bit of an inconvenience =
trying to=20
| find the open window when you're in a hurry to leave, but having each =
device=20
| annunciate individually on your keypad is not a requirement.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Does Joe Blow
| >> jump zones rather than repairing faulty devices?
| >
| >
| >>Do the "nationals"??  Crummy installers and ditzy service techs are =
also
| > employed by "nationals", you know.  I've met my fair share, thank =
you.
| > <
| >
| > I've met them from all walks of life, but with a national there is
| > backup.
|=20
| Ummmm...  would that be from the branch office??  Could it be that the =

| branch office may consist of one or two service techs (like Joe Blow's =

| Company)??
|=20
| > Nationals tend to have more installers in their local offices
| > than Joe Blow.
|=20
| Heh...  right...
|=20
| > If Joe Blow is a 1 man show like your pal in Sarasota
| > then what recourse does the end user have?
|=20
| There ya go again...  comparing Bass Home with a national (or any =
alarm=20
| company).  He doesn't do installs.  He doesn't do service (He does =
remove=20
| Brinks panels though).  Sheesh!!!
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> It only takes one
| >> incident to destroy a national's reputation but Joe Blow skates.
| >
| >
| >>Wrong.  Both the "national" and "Joe Blow" (using your example of =
"we've
| > never had any trouble") would stand behind the equipment they sell =
and
| > "make
| > it right" with the customer on any "one incident".<
| >
| > I've seen more locals than nationals walk away from trouble systems,
| > leaving the customer high & dry.
|=20
| I haven't seen a lot of examples of that.  Vancouver must be =
"different".
|=20
| > Those "low down/free systems" have done more to bolster our industry
| > than any other form of marketing.
| > Crunch the numbers and see the amount of systems installed since the
| > inception of these low down systems.
|=20
| Which was the point of my point...  Dummy!!!
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Look at Bass.
| >
| >
| >>You comparing Bass Home with a "national" now??  He's a parts pusher =
who
| > doesn't provide service, or installation and still claims the CS =
he's
| > using
| > is "UL Listed".<
| >
| > No ya numbnut I was comparing Bass with a local dealer. How many of =
his
| > victims even know they were duped by him? I saw the clowns installs,
| > and he made the crappiest installer look like a pro.
|=20
| No matter how ya slice it, Bass isn't a "Dealer" of any kind (except =
when=20
| he's playin' Poker).
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Think of the people he has
| >> suckered over the years.
| >
| >
| >>Twelve at last count at the BBB (and rising).<
| >
| > Not his online racket. I'm talking about his CT installs.
|=20
| Don't know anything about how he installed.  And I don't accept third =
party=20
| comments about another person.  I've seen Bass in action in this group =
and=20
| wouldn't give the guy the time of day let alone allow him in my house =
to=20
| install a system.  That opinion is based entirely on his Newsgroup =
persona=20
| and nothing else.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> No problems with some of his installs because
| >> he jumped zones.
| >
| >
| >>I'll take your word for it.  I've never seen one of his installs and
| > probably never will.<
| >
| > You'd die laughing if you did.
|=20
| I'm already laughing...
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> You don't think Bass was ever referred to someone
| >> because the existing sucker never had a problem?
| >
| >
| >>I'm sure he was.  I understand he was "big" with Jewish Community.<
| >
| > Like a bacon sandwich in Temple Beth El.
|=20
| Heh!!
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Bass isn't all by
| >> himself in the shoddy business society.
| >
| >
| >>Like I said, I can't comment on Bass providing "shoddy service".  =
I've=20
| >>never
| > seen one of his installs.  I *have* seen the competitions though.<
| >
| > I'm not sure how many installs you have seen but from my experience =
the
| > local dealers here need some sort of policing.
| > Guys like Jack Stevens are a dying breed (at their age they're on
| > borrowed time too). Locals try to compete with nationals and most =
I've
| > seen can't do it without taking shortcuts.
|=20
| None of the nationals I deal with here and very few of the locals take =

| "shortcuts".  Most customers here are pretty savvy when it comes to =
alarm=20
| systems.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> The difference is Bass was
| >> busted time and time again in this forum, but I'd bet money to this =
day
| >> there are people who still think their system from the local guy =
(bass)
| >> still works fine. Wait until they find out that heat detector isn't
| >> connected.
| >
| >
| >>"Busting his balls" in the forum isn't the same as getting nailed =
for
| > "shoddy workmanship" or "unlicensed activity" in your local area.
| > There's
| > been a couple of instances where both has happened to one of the =
"big
| > three"
| > here in Vancouver (ISTR the CEO of Tyco got "nailed" recently). <
| >
| > You're the big Google guru so post the old news articles on ADT
| > installers arrested for breaking into homes, but when you do it make
| > sure to add installers for local companies.
| > That's what's really scary.
|=20
| Funny how the "nationals" always make the news with stuff like that...
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> See if the Central station is U.L. Listed, and I.Q. Certified. Make
| >> sure the installing company is also licensed & I.Q Certified.
| >> As Jack stated 90 some odd percent of all signals are false alarms. =
The
| >> I.Q. Certification Board's #1 goal is the reduction of false =
alarms.
| >
| >
| >
| >>Right.  So what method does "the Board" recommend you use to reduce =
false
| > alarms caused by a klutzy end-user??  Shoot the f**ker??  Cut off =
his
| > hands??<
| >
| > Training training training training and more training.
|=20
| Uh-huh...  sure...
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Joe Blow Alarm Company can always offer a better deal than the next =
guy
| >> because Joe Blow Alarm Company doesn't use quality equipment,
| >
| >
| >>Excuse me??  We onliest use the bestust relays and high quality =
chrome
| > plated pull chains.<
| >
| > Loxxons for everyone!
|=20
| I like mine with a bagel.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> fire-rated wire,
| >
| >
| >>Is that anything like asbestos covered steel supports that had a =
"two=20
| >>hour"
| > fire rating??<
| >
| > It's like a left-handed toothbrush.
|=20
| Ahhh...  I get the "pitcher".
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> and doesn't answer to anyone.
| >
| >
| >>I always answer my phone...  when I feel like it.<
| >
| > Who calls you anyway? I wouldn't. You spell like a retard so you =
must
| > be dribbling on the phone too :-)
|=20
| Pardon me while I wipe the drool from my keyboard.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Joe Blow can use that
| >> $2.00 per month monitoring station that ass nuggets like Bass use.
| >
| >
| >>We use third party monitoring as well...  They're ULC listed, and =
their
| > staff are all SIA trained.<
| >
| >
| > Would you say that's the exception and not the rule?
|=20
| Nope.  The industry here is pretty tightly regulated.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Joe
| >> Blow won't offer a client a system relocation.
| >
| >
| >>I would in a heartbeat!!  "You wanna move this equipment to where, =
Mr.
| > Customer??  That'll cost ya about $300.00 plus airfare, hotel, and
| > entertainment!" <
| >
| > So in other words NO?
|=20
| Did I say that??
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> All Joe Blow can do is
| >> tell you why someone else is no good.
| >
| >
| >>Well thank you, Joe...  errmmmm...  I mean Tom...<
| >
| >
| > Too much eggnog?
|=20
| Puh-leeze!!!  It's "Courvoisier".  My tastes are much more =
discriminating.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >> Fact is, if Joe Blow Alarm
| >> Company was that damn good then Joe Blow Alarm Company would be =
bigger
| >> than they are, and have awards to show just how much better they =
are.
| >
| >
| >>Not if the owner (in this case Joe Blow) decided he wanted to =
concentrate=20
| >>on
| > providing good service and value for money (like Bob Campbell).  In
| > Bob's
| > case, the business "grows" by referral and he can "pick and choose" =
who
| > he
| > wants to do business with.  I'm sure that his son is going to have =
to
| > make a
| > decision sooner or later to hire addtional support staff and service
| > techs.
| > Besides, when "Joe Blow Alarm Company" gets to a certain size, they
| > usually
| > wind up selling out to a "national" for a "sweet-heart deal"...  =
:-)) <
| >
| > Have you seen any of his installs? He might be the greatest =
installer
| > alive but have you seen any of his installs?
| > It's just hearsay until you actually do.
|=20
| Nope.  I haven't.  But I'm a pretty good judge of character.  I figure =
Jim,=20
| Mark, Jim R., RHC, Jack, Jackcsg, Bob L., Bob W., Norm and a few =
others here=20
| are decent folks.  It's actually easier to list the guy "on the dark =
side"=20
| than all the good people here...  :-))
|=20
|=20
| >
| >> Yap yap yap until the cows come home but the proof is in the =
pudding.
| >
| >
| >
| >>When the cows come home you have to milk them first before you can =
make
| > pudding.<
| >
| > Milk a bull
|=20
| A "bull" ain't a cow, but a cow can be a "bull", right??  :-))
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Stop advising people to eliminate choices with blanket statements.
| >
| >
| >
| >>I don't think I did...<
| >
| > You have done it before. You post so damn much you can't keep track =
of
| > your own blabbering.
|=20
| Where??  I done Googled everythin', boss and can't find it nowhere.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Look at the post from RHC in this thread and see if you can spot a
| >> problem with "local service".
| >
| >
| >>Yep.  That problem's covered though (in RHC's case).  When Bass goes =
on
| > vacation the whole store goes to s**t. <
| >
| > And how many Bassholes are there as opposed to RHCs?
|=20
| Heh...  I ain't gonna touch that!!  I promised I wouldn't flame =
Robert...
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> RHC went on vacation (which is great.... more power to him) but who =
was
| >> left minding the shop?
| >
| >
| >>Ummmm...  His son??<
| >
| > How qualified is his son? (mind you RHC is the example of a small
| > dealer Frankie. We're not discussing his son per say but companies
| > constructed the same way). What if his son isn't qualified? When =
will a
| > Father ever admit his son is incapable? RHC isn't the only =
father/son
| > company out there.
|=20
| Hey!!!  Lay off RHC.  He's Canadian, dammit!!!
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Someone who in his own words doesn't fully understand the industry.
| >
| >
| >>Heh...  He's also stated that he does most of the installs.  I =
figure he
| > probably has good trouble-shooting skills as well.  Besides, there's
| > always
| > the "cell phone"...<
| >
| >
| > He's "stated" but where is the proof? It's still hearsay Frankie.
|=20
| Nope.  When someone states something about their own business or =
themselves=20
| , that's not hearsay...  You should look up the meaning of the word.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> What happened to any potential service issues during that time?  =
Who
| >> took care of the customers? Was it someone who was fully aware of =
the
| >> industry, and someone who knows how to handle any service issue?
| >> How long should a customer wait until their system is functioning =
at
| >> 100%.
| >
| >
| >>About two hours (I figure)...<
| >
| > You GUESS
|=20
| What do you think "I figure" means??
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> This isn't a pot shot at anyone Frank, but this isn't the Goodwill
| >> Society either so if offense is taken so be it.
| >
| >
| >>No offense taken...  and none given...<
| >
| > I must be losing my touch :-)
| >
| > <snip>
| >
| >
| >
| >> It's sad how "advise" (Canadian version) is spewed out about who is
| >> good and who isn't when the bottom line is you don't really have a
| >> fucking clue if you're right or not.
| >
| >
| >>Awww...  give me a break...  Nothing I've said hasn't been said =
already.
| > Check out:<
| >
| > You just did it in your reply.
| >
|=20
| <sigh>
|=20
| >
| >> Having a few beers with someone,
| >> or trading emails doesn't make them a reputable dealer, nor does
| >> someone listed on your website have a reputation that you know for =
fact
| >> is good. All you do is spout off hearsay, and in this business =
that's
| >> just irresponsible.
| >
| >
| >>Heh...  I've never listed anyone on my website by "reputation".  And =
I've
| > never "spouted off" hearsay. <
| >
| > You just did. Now what is the criteria to be listed on your website?
|=20
| You really want to know??  Or are you just "fishing"??
|=20
|=20
| > Tell me what you do to protect end users from shoddy installers?
|=20
| I onliest hire the bestust beer drinkers and use the bestust qualities =

| relays and pull chains.
|=20
|=20
| > Do you investigate these companies, and if so, how?
|=20
| Nope.  Not my place.  If they're licensed (in their State/Province) =
then=20
| they get listed.  The BBB does a pretty good job of keeping tabs on =
how they=20
| perform.  The latest iteration of my "Dealers" page contains a link to =
the=20
| local BBB and State Alarm Association.
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> I've been a local dealer, and I've been a dealer for nationals. =
Were my
| >> installers any better when we didn't have the national shingle?
| >
| >
| >>Nope.  I think I've already alluded to that.<
| >
| > OK
| >
| >
| >> (BTW - Fuck you Bass in advance for your future comments. I could =
out
| >> install your slob ass with a Yankee drill, a dull bit, and both =
arms in
| >> a sling).
| >
| >
| >
| >>You forgot to mention "both legs in a cast".<
| >
| > And under sedation
|=20
| Prozac???
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> I've cracked jokes about my installation abilities over the years =
but I
| >> can guarantee you you'd be hard pressed to find someone you'd =
rather
| >> have install or service your system than me or any of my techs. =
Mark
| >> Leuck and I crack jokes about the millions of phone calls I've made =
to
| >> him with questions but what we never talk about is the reason being
| >> that I service DSC, Moose, AT&T, ITI, Ademco, Napco, DS, Radionics,
| >> MyAlarm, and on and on and on. All of my training has been Baptism =
by
| >> Fire. I don't sit back and read a manual so I can post answers in a
| >> newsgroup. I get a call today for a panel I never worked with and =
by
| >> tomorrow I have it repaired. And as Mark can also attest to I am =
not
| >> alone in this area.
| >
| >
| >
| >>I seriously doubt you'd be able to repair/program a panel without =
first
| > reading it's manual.  I don't think Mark would tolerate many phone
| > calls
| > from Dealers that require answering a question that's already =
covered
| > *in
| > the freakin' manual*.  Not reading the manual is pure laziness.
| > Posting
| > stupid questions in this Newsgroup when you've got the manual in =
front
| > of
| > you is equally lazy. <
| >
| >
| > Frankie in most situations when it's your first time with the panel
| > there is no time to read the manual so you wire up the different =
panels
| > properly and have someone walk you through programming, and the next
| > time you run into that system you should have it down in spades.
| > Mind you I'm talking about panels that aren't amongst the most =
popular
| > choices, and panels that are no longer in production.
| > Mark dammit explain it in English to the Canuck.
|=20
| It doesn't take long for me to read a manual.  Understanding the =
principles=20
| of programming a panel doesn't take long either.  I'd never even try =
to=20
| program a Radionics panel (or one of Jackcsg's "Dippy" ones)...  And I =
don't=20
| waste time on the phone to someone in Texas to try and get him to talk =
me=20
| through programming when I know some klutzy installer that leaves=20
| "no-wires-showing" needs him more.  :-))
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Do you think all locals immediately become inept once a national =
hands
| >> them a shingle?
| >
| >
| >
| >>Yep!!!  :-)) <
| >
| > You really do want a fckin wedgie don't you?
|=20
| I prefer "Noogies"...
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Rojas services for nationals and was also a dealer. Is he on the
| >> "dark-side" of installers now? Bob Skinner was an ADT dealer. How
| >> shoddy is his work? How about Bossman? He's a Monitronics dealer. =
Does
| >> his work suck? Are his clients screwed?
| >
| >
| >
| >>Hey!!!  We do work for "nationals" too!!!  I guess that means =
Robert's=20
| >>been
| > right all along...  I know nothing about alarms...  :-))<
| >
| > Bass thinks Augustus Pope was the ruler of Vatican City.
|=20
| Wasn't he??
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> How solid is your advice now Frank? How solid is your "atta boy =
Frank"
| >> now RHC?
| >
| >
| >
| >>'Bout as "solid" as this post (which looks more like an example from =
RLB's
| > poison keyboard more and more)...<
| >
| > It was the burgers.
|=20
| :-))
|=20
|=20
| >
| >
| >> Stop bullshitting people already with your nickel and dime scare
| >> tactics about nationals, and start worrying about your own =
credibility
| >> because with the advice you offer you're both in desperate need of
| >> some.
| >
| >
| > <sigh>
| >
| >
| >> Don't like what I am saying? Remind me tomorrow to pretend I give a
| >> shit.
| >
| >
| >
| >>Write me when you start making sense and have actually *read* what I =

| >>posted,
| > OK??  Till then...  "Below me"...  :-)) <
| >
| > "Below me"? Going UFO hunting now too?
|=20
| Nope.  Spooks.  I done rewired my volt-meter to detect 'em.=20
|=20
|