Re: Looking to purchase alarm system - suggestions?

["Frank Olson" <feolson@xxxxxxxxxx>]

"no wires showing" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1120937040.754457.196420@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Frankie,
>           Try to do just a little bit of research before slamming
> nationals,or dealers for nationals.


Where have I "slammed nationals or dealers for nationals"??  We do work for
"nationals" on a regular basis.  There's no way I would "bite a hand that
feeds me".  That's RLB's style, not mine.


> Price should NEVER be an issue in
> security. QUALITY! This isn't a dining room set, or lawn sprinklers.
> These people are looking for Life Safety Devices, and shopping on price
> is not a wise move.

I believe I said that (only in not so many words).


>
> "Oh we've had Joe Blow Alarm Company for 15 years and never had a
> problem. Whenever the alarm goes off they call right away"
>
> What's wrong with that statement? Simple. Joe Blow's response time for
> False Alarms is on the money, but Joe Blow's system falses too damn
> much.

How many of the "falses" are user related in your example, though??  What's
to keep "a national" from experiencing the same level of falses from a
klutzy user??


>
> "Well my friend has a Joe Blow alarm system, and they never had
> trouble"

Most people would interpret a statement like that to mean:

- They're always "there" when you need them,
- Their equipment is top notch,
- They've never had a break-in (or the authorities responded to an attempt
at one)


>
> Do we know if Joe Blow's system is functioning properly?

Do we know "the nationals" is??

> Does Joe Blow
> really tell his client's to test their system weekly?

Checked your keypads lately??  It says "test system weekly" on most of them.

> Does Joe Blow
> jump zones rather than repairing faulty devices?

Do the "nationals"??  Crummy installers and ditzy service techs are also
employed by "nationals", you know.  I've met my fair share, thank you.


> It only takes one
> incident to destroy a national's reputation but Joe Blow skates.

Wrong.  Both the "national" and "Joe Blow" (using your example of "we've
never had any trouble") would stand behind the equipment they sell and "make
it right" with the customer on any "one incident".

> Why?
> Because Joe only has 200 accounts when the national has over half a
> million. Nationals need to be right 100% of the time or they are
> hammered by small dealers.

The "Nationals" deserve the bad reps they got a number of years back when
they introduced the "low down" and "free" alarm "packages".  Any local
Dealer savvy enough to see that this type of system didn't really address a
customer's security concerns could capitalize on it.  Many people that got
"sucked in" to purchasing such a lousy system and then wound up having an
"incident" would be asking "why didn't you provide me *this* level of
protection when I first signed up?"

> Look at Bass.

You comparing Bass Home with a "national" now??  He's a parts pusher who
doesn't provide service, or installation and still claims the CS he's using
is "UL Listed".

> Think of the people he has
> suckered over the years.

Twelve at last count at the BBB (and rising).

> No problems with some of his installs because
> he jumped zones.

I'll take your word for it.  I've never seen one of his installs and
probably never will.

> You don't think Bass was ever referred to someone
> because the existing sucker never had a problem?

I'm sure he was.  I understand he was "big" with Jewish Community.

> Bass isn't all by
> himself in the shoddy business society.

Like I said, I can't comment on Bass providing "shoddy service".  I've never
seen one of his installs.  I *have* seen the competitions though.

> The difference is Bass was
> busted time and time again in this forum, but I'd bet money to this day
> there are people who still think their system from the local guy (bass)
> still works fine. Wait until they find out that heat detector isn't
> connected.

"Busting his balls" in the forum isn't the same as getting nailed for
"shoddy workmanship" or "unlicensed activity" in your local area.  There's
been a couple of instances where both has happened to one of the "big three"
here in Vancouver (ISTR the CEO of Tyco got "nailed" recently).


>
>
> See if the Central station is U.L. Listed, and I.Q. Certified. Make
> sure the installing company is also licensed & I.Q Certified.
> As Jack stated 90 some odd percent of all signals are false alarms. The
> I.Q. Certification Board's #1 goal is the reduction of false alarms.

Right.  So what method does "the Board" recommend you use to reduce false
alarms caused by a klutzy end-user??  Shoot the f**ker??  Cut off his
hands??


> Joe Blow Alarm Company can always offer a better deal than the next guy
> because Joe Blow Alarm Company doesn't use quality equipment,

Excuse me??  We onliest use the bestust relays and high quality chrome
plated pull chains.


> fire-rated wire,

Is that anything like asbestos covered steel supports that had a "two hour"
fire rating??

> and doesn't answer to anyone.

I always answer my phone...  when I feel like it.

> Joe Blow can use that
> $2.00 per month monitoring station that ass nuggets like Bass use.

We use third party monitoring as well...  They're ULC listed, and their
staff are all SIA trained.

> Joe
> Blow won't offer a client a system relocation.

I would in a heartbeat!!  "You wanna move this equipment to where, Mr.
Customer??  That'll cost ya about $300.00 plus airfare, hotel, and
entertainment!"

> All Joe Blow can do is
> tell you why someone else is no good.

Well thank you, Joe...  errmmmm...  I mean Tom...

> Fact is, if Joe Blow Alarm
> Company was that damn good then Joe Blow Alarm Company would be bigger
> than they are, and have awards to show just how much better they are.

Not if the owner (in this case Joe Blow) decided he wanted to concentrate on
providing good service and value for money (like Bob Campbell).  In Bob's
case, the business "grows" by referral and he can "pick and choose" who he
wants to do business with.  I'm sure that his son is going to have to make a
decision sooner or later to hire addtional support staff and service techs.
Besides, when "Joe Blow Alarm Company" gets to a certain size, they usually
wind up selling out to a "national" for a "sweet-heart deal"...  :-))


>
> Yap yap yap until the cows come home but the proof is in the pudding.

When the cows come home you have to milk them first before you can make
pudding.


>
> Stop advising people to eliminate choices with blanket statements.

I don't think I did...


> Look at the post from RHC in this thread and see if you can spot a
> problem with "local service".

Yep.  That problem's covered though (in RHC's case).  When Bass goes on
vacation the whole store goes to s**t.


> RHC went on vacation (which is great.... more power to him) but who was
> left minding the shop?

Ummmm...  His son??


> Someone who in his own words doesn't fully understand the industry.

Heh...  He's also stated that he does most of the installs.  I figure he
probably has good trouble-shooting skills as well.  Besides, there's always
the "cell phone"...


> What happened to any potential service issues during that time?  Who
> took care of the customers? Was it someone who was fully aware of the
> industry, and someone who knows how to handle any service issue?
> How long should a customer wait until their system is functioning at
> 100%.

About two hours (I figure)...


> This isn't a pot shot at anyone Frank, but this isn't the Goodwill
> Society either so if offense is taken so be it.

No offense taken...  and none given...

<snip>

> It's sad how "advise" (Canadian version) is spewed out about who is
> good and who isn't when the bottom line is you don't really have a
> fucking clue if you're right or not.

Awww...  give me a break...  Nothing I've said hasn't been said already.
Check out:

http://www.alarm.org/pressreleases/10tips.html

> Having a few beers with someone,
> or trading emails doesn't make them a reputable dealer, nor does
> someone listed on your website have a reputation that you know for fact
> is good. All you do is spout off hearsay, and in this business that's
> just irresponsible.

Heh...  I've never listed anyone on my website by "reputation".  And I've
never "spouted off" hearsay.


> I've been a local dealer, and I've been a dealer for nationals. Were my
> installers any better when we didn't have the national shingle?

Nope.  I think I've already alluded to that.


>
> (BTW - Fuck you Bass in advance for your future comments. I could out
> install your slob ass with a Yankee drill, a dull bit, and both arms in
> a sling).

You forgot to mention "both legs in a cast".


>
> I've cracked jokes about my installation abilities over the years but I
> can guarantee you you'd be hard pressed to find someone you'd rather
> have install or service your system than me or any of my techs. Mark
> Leuck and I crack jokes about the millions of phone calls I've made to
> him with questions but what we never talk about is the reason being
> that I service DSC, Moose, AT&T, ITI, Ademco, Napco, DS, Radionics,
> MyAlarm, and on and on and on. All of my training has been Baptism by
> Fire. I don't sit back and read a manual so I can post answers in a
> newsgroup. I get a call today for a panel I never worked with and by
> tomorrow I have it repaired. And as Mark can also attest to I am not
> alone in this area.

I seriously doubt you'd be able to repair/program a panel without first
reading it's manual.  I don't think Mark would tolerate many phone calls
from Dealers that require answering a question that's already covered *in
the freakin' manual*.  Not reading the manual is pure laziness.  Posting
stupid questions in this Newsgroup when you've got the manual in front of
you is equally lazy.


>
> Do you think all locals immediately become inept once a national hands
> them a shingle?

Yep!!!  :-))


>
> Rojas services for nationals and was also a dealer. Is he on the
> "dark-side" of installers now? Bob Skinner was an ADT dealer. How
> shoddy is his work? How about Bossman? He's a Monitronics dealer. Does
> his work suck? Are his clients screwed?

Hey!!!  We do work for "nationals" too!!!  I guess that means Robert's been
right all along...  I know nothing about alarms...  :-))


>
> How solid is your advice now Frank? How solid is your "atta boy Frank"
> now RHC?

'Bout as "solid" as this post (which looks more like an example from RLB's
poison keyboard more and more)...


> Stop bullshitting people already with your nickel and dime scare
> tactics about nationals, and start worrying about your own credibility
> because with the advice you offer you're both in desperate need of
> some.

<sigh>


>
> Don't like what I am saying? Remind me tomorrow to pretend I give a
> shit.

Write me when you start making sense and have actually *read* what I posted,
OK??  Till then...  "Below me"...  :-))