Re: Looking to purchase alarm system - suggestions?

["no wires showing" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx>]

Frank Olson   Jul 9, 4:28 pm     show options

Newsgroups: alt.security.alarms
From: "Frank Olson" <feol...@xxxxxxxxxx> - Find messages by this author

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:28:11 GMT
Local: Sat,Jul 9 2005 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: Looking to purchase alarm system - suggestions?
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"no wires showing" <alarminst...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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> Frankie,
>           Try to do just a little bit of research before slamming
> nationals,or dealers for nationals.


>Where have I "slammed nationals or dealers for nationals"??  We do work for
"nationals" on a regular basis.  There's no way I would "bite a hand
that
feeds me".  That's RLB's style, not mine.<

Frankie you've been slamming nationals for years. Denial isn't a river
in Egypt.


> Price should NEVER be an issue in
> security. QUALITY! This isn't a dining room set, or lawn sprinklers.
> These people are looking for Life Safety Devices, and shopping on price
> is not a wise move.


>I believe I said that (only in not so many words).<

Next time use more words then. Dumb fckin Canadians always confusing
people.


> "Oh we've had Joe Blow Alarm Company for 15 years and never had a
> problem. Whenever the alarm goes off they call right away"


> What's wrong with that statement? Simple. Joe Blow's response time for
> False Alarms is on the money, but Joe Blow's system falses too damn
> much.



>How many of the "falses" are user related in your example, though??  What's
to keep "a national" from experiencing the same level of falses from a
klutzy user??<

Properly training the end user will reduce false alarms. Quality
equipment and fire rated wiring will also help. While some nationals
are absolute shitbags there are some who demand much higher standards
than any local I've ever seen.
If it came down to a choice between Joe Blow and Protect America I
would go with Joe Blow but if you're comparing Joe Blow to say Westec
then Westec is where my money is at.


> "Well my friend has a Joe Blow alarm system, and they never had
> trouble"



>Most people would interpret a statement like that to mean:

- They're always "there" when you need them,
- Their equipment is top notch,
- They've never had a break-in (or the authorities responded to an
attempt
at one)<

Frankie customers don't have a real clue as to the quality of their
service, and customers hate admitting they made a bad choice.



> Do we know if Joe Blow's system is functioning properly?



>Do we know "the nationals" is??<

Not with all of them. I've seen jumped zones on ADT panels just as many
times as I've seen jumped zones on the local company's panels.


> Does Joe Blow
> really tell his client's to test their system weekly?


>Checked your keypads lately??  It says "test system weekly" on most of them.<

Know of many customers who actually do it? How many customers know to
look in the panel for jumped zones?
Come on down here and see what the "locals" offer. Windows & doors all
on the same zone because they're too cheap to buy an expander.


> Does Joe Blow
> jump zones rather than repairing faulty devices?


>Do the "nationals"??  Crummy installers and ditzy service techs are also
employed by "nationals", you know.  I've met my fair share, thank you.
<

I've met them from all walks of life, but with a national there is
backup. Nationals tend to have more installers in their local offices
than Joe Blow. If Joe Blow is a 1 man show like your pal in Sarasota
then what recourse does the end user have?


> It only takes one
> incident to destroy a national's reputation but Joe Blow skates.


>Wrong.  Both the "national" and "Joe Blow" (using your example of "we've
never had any trouble") would stand behind the equipment they sell and
"make
it right" with the customer on any "one incident".<

I've seen more locals than nationals walk away from trouble systems,
leaving the customer high & dry.


> Why?
> Because Joe only has 200 accounts when the national has over half a
> million. Nationals need to be right 100% of the time or they are
> hammered by small dealers.


>The "Nationals" deserve the bad reps they got a number of years back when
they introduced the "low down" and "free" alarm "packages".  Any local
Dealer savvy enough to see that this type of system didn't really
address a
customer's security concerns could capitalize on it.  Many people that
got
"sucked in" to purchasing such a lousy system and then wound up having
an
"incident" would be asking "why didn't you provide me *this* level of
protection when I first signed up?"<

Those "low down/free systems" have done more to bolster our industry
than any other form of marketing.
Crunch the numbers and see the amount of systems installed since the
inception of these low down systems.


> Look at Bass.


>You comparing Bass Home with a "national" now??  He's a parts pusher who
doesn't provide service, or installation and still claims the CS he's
using
is "UL Listed".<

No ya numbnut I was comparing Bass with a local dealer. How many of his
victims even know they were duped by him? I saw the clowns installs,
and he made the crappiest installer look like a pro.


> Think of the people he has
> suckered over the years.


>Twelve at last count at the BBB (and rising).<

Not his online racket. I'm talking about his CT installs.


> No problems with some of his installs because
> he jumped zones.


>I'll take your word for it.  I've never seen one of his installs and
probably never will.<

You'd die laughing if you did.


> You don't think Bass was ever referred to someone
> because the existing sucker never had a problem?


>I'm sure he was.  I understand he was "big" with Jewish Community.<

Like a bacon sandwich in Temple Beth El.


> Bass isn't all by
> himself in the shoddy business society.


>Like I said, I can't comment on Bass providing "shoddy service".  I've never
seen one of his installs.  I *have* seen the competitions though.<

I'm not sure how many installs you have seen but from my experience the
local dealers here need some sort of policing.
Guys like Jack Stevens are a dying breed (at their age they're on
borrowed time too). Locals try to compete with nationals and most I've
seen can't do it without taking shortcuts.


> The difference is Bass was
> busted time and time again in this forum, but I'd bet money to this day
> there are people who still think their system from the local guy (bass)
> still works fine. Wait until they find out that heat detector isn't
> connected.


>"Busting his balls" in the forum isn't the same as getting nailed for
"shoddy workmanship" or "unlicensed activity" in your local area.
There's
been a couple of instances where both has happened to one of the "big
three"
here in Vancouver (ISTR the CEO of Tyco got "nailed" recently). <

You're the big Google guru so post the old news articles on ADT
installers arrested for breaking into homes, but when you do it make
sure to add installers for local companies.
That's what's really scary.


> See if the Central station is U.L. Listed, and I.Q. Certified. Make
> sure the installing company is also licensed & I.Q Certified.
> As Jack stated 90 some odd percent of all signals are false alarms. The
> I.Q. Certification Board's #1 goal is the reduction of false alarms.



>Right.  So what method does "the Board" recommend you use to reduce false
alarms caused by a klutzy end-user??  Shoot the f**ker??  Cut off his
hands??<

Training training training training and more training.


> Joe Blow Alarm Company can always offer a better deal than the next guy
> because Joe Blow Alarm Company doesn't use quality equipment,


>Excuse me??  We onliest use the bestust relays and high quality chrome
plated pull chains.<

Loxxons for everyone!


> fire-rated wire,


>Is that anything like asbestos covered steel supports that had a "two hour"
fire rating??<

It's like a left-handed toothbrush.


> and doesn't answer to anyone.


>I always answer my phone...  when I feel like it.<

Who calls you anyway? I wouldn't. You spell like a retard so you must
be dribbling on the phone too :-)


> Joe Blow can use that
> $2.00 per month monitoring station that ass nuggets like Bass use.


>We use third party monitoring as well...  They're ULC listed, and their
staff are all SIA trained.<


Would you say that's the exception and not the rule?


> Joe
> Blow won't offer a client a system relocation.


>I would in a heartbeat!!  "You wanna move this equipment to where, Mr.
Customer??  That'll cost ya about $300.00 plus airfare, hotel, and
entertainment!" <

So in other words NO?


> All Joe Blow can do is
> tell you why someone else is no good.


>Well thank you, Joe...  errmmmm...  I mean Tom...<


Too much eggnog?

> Fact is, if Joe Blow Alarm
> Company was that damn good then Joe Blow Alarm Company would be bigger
> than they are, and have awards to show just how much better they are.


>Not if the owner (in this case Joe Blow) decided he wanted to concentrate on
providing good service and value for money (like Bob Campbell).  In
Bob's
case, the business "grows" by referral and he can "pick and choose" who
he
wants to do business with.  I'm sure that his son is going to have to
make a
decision sooner or later to hire addtional support staff and service
techs.
Besides, when "Joe Blow Alarm Company" gets to a certain size, they
usually
wind up selling out to a "national" for a "sweet-heart deal"...  :-)) <

Have you seen any of his installs? He might be the greatest installer
alive but have you seen any of his installs?
It's just hearsay until you actually do.

> Yap yap yap until the cows come home but the proof is in the pudding.



>When the cows come home you have to milk them first before you can make
pudding.<

Milk a bull


> Stop advising people to eliminate choices with blanket statements.



>I don't think I did...<

You have done it before. You post so damn much you can't keep track of
your own blabbering.


> Look at the post from RHC in this thread and see if you can spot a
> problem with "local service".


>Yep.  That problem's covered though (in RHC's case).  When Bass goes on
vacation the whole store goes to s**t. <

And how many Bassholes are there as opposed to RHCs?


> RHC went on vacation (which is great.... more power to him) but who was
> left minding the shop?


>Ummmm...  His son??<

How qualified is his son? (mind you RHC is the example of a small
dealer Frankie. We're not discussing his son per say but companies
constructed the same way). What if his son isn't qualified? When will a
Father ever admit his son is incapable? RHC isn't the only father/son
company out there.


> Someone who in his own words doesn't fully understand the industry.


>Heh...  He's also stated that he does most of the installs.  I figure he
probably has good trouble-shooting skills as well.  Besides, there's
always
the "cell phone"...<


He's "stated" but where is the proof? It's still hearsay Frankie.


> What happened to any potential service issues during that time?  Who
> took care of the customers? Was it someone who was fully aware of the
> industry, and someone who knows how to handle any service issue?
> How long should a customer wait until their system is functioning at
> 100%.


>About two hours (I figure)...<

You GUESS


> This isn't a pot shot at anyone Frank, but this isn't the Goodwill
> Society either so if offense is taken so be it.


>No offense taken...  and none given...<

I must be losing my touch :-)

<snip>



> It's sad how "advise" (Canadian version) is spewed out about who is
> good and who isn't when the bottom line is you don't really have a
> fucking clue if you're right or not.


>Awww...  give me a break...  Nothing I've said hasn't been said already.
Check out:<

You just did it in your reply.





> Having a few beers with someone,
> or trading emails doesn't make them a reputable dealer, nor does
> someone listed on your website have a reputation that you know for fact
> is good. All you do is spout off hearsay, and in this business that's
> just irresponsible.


>Heh...  I've never listed anyone on my website by "reputation".  And I've
never "spouted off" hearsay. <

You just did. Now what is the criteria to be listed on your website?
Tell me what you do to protect end users from shoddy installers?
Do you investigate these companies, and if so, how?


> I've been a local dealer, and I've been a dealer for nationals. Were my
> installers any better when we didn't have the national shingle?


>Nope.  I think I've already alluded to that.<

OK


> (BTW - Fuck you Bass in advance for your future comments. I could out
> install your slob ass with a Yankee drill, a dull bit, and both arms in
> a sling).



>You forgot to mention "both legs in a cast".<

And under sedation


> I've cracked jokes about my installation abilities over the years but I
> can guarantee you you'd be hard pressed to find someone you'd rather
> have install or service your system than me or any of my techs. Mark
> Leuck and I crack jokes about the millions of phone calls I've made to
> him with questions but what we never talk about is the reason being
> that I service DSC, Moose, AT&T, ITI, Ademco, Napco, DS, Radionics,
> MyAlarm, and on and on and on. All of my training has been Baptism by
> Fire. I don't sit back and read a manual so I can post answers in a
> newsgroup. I get a call today for a panel I never worked with and by
> tomorrow I have it repaired. And as Mark can also attest to I am not
> alone in this area.



>I seriously doubt you'd be able to repair/program a panel without first
reading it's manual.  I don't think Mark would tolerate many phone
calls
from Dealers that require answering a question that's already covered
*in
the freakin' manual*.  Not reading the manual is pure laziness.
Posting
stupid questions in this Newsgroup when you've got the manual in front
of
you is equally lazy. <


Frankie in most situations when it's your first time with the panel
there is no time to read the manual so you wire up the different panels
properly and have someone walk you through programming, and the next
time you run into that system you should have it down in spades.
Mind you I'm talking about panels that aren't amongst the most popular
choices, and panels that are no longer in production.
Mark dammit explain it in English to the Canuck.


> Do you think all locals immediately become inept once a national hands
> them a shingle?



>Yep!!!  :-)) <

You really do want a fckin wedgie don't you?


> Rojas services for nationals and was also a dealer. Is he on the
> "dark-side" of installers now? Bob Skinner was an ADT dealer. How
> shoddy is his work? How about Bossman? He's a Monitronics dealer. Does
> his work suck? Are his clients screwed?



>Hey!!!  We do work for "nationals" too!!!  I guess that means Robert's been
right all along...  I know nothing about alarms...  :-))<

Bass thinks Augustus Pope was the ruler of Vatican City.


> How solid is your advice now Frank? How solid is your "atta boy Frank"
> now RHC?



>'Bout as "solid" as this post (which looks more like an example from RLB's
poison keyboard more and more)...<

It was the burgers.


> Stop bullshitting people already with your nickel and dime scare
> tactics about nationals, and start worrying about your own credibility
> because with the advice you offer you're both in desperate need of
> some.


<sigh>


> Don't like what I am saying? Remind me tomorrow to pretend I give a
> shit.



>Write me when you start making sense and have actually *read* what I posted,
OK??  Till then...  "Below me"...  :-)) <

"Below me"? Going UFO hunting now too?