Re: 2 wire vs 4 wire Smoke allarms

[G. Morgan <alarmpro@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:44:07 GMT, Frank Olson
<Use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>G. Morgan wrote:
>
>> Anytime you connect a fire device to a burglar alarm it becomes a
>> "fire alarm" and all applicable codes must be followed.   Including
>> but not limited to appropriate fire cabling to the keypads and sirens,
>> proper detector coverage and spacing, and....  yes..  devices that are
>> listed for FACP initiation.   In this case the BRK smokes are not
>> listed for that purpose.
>>
>> -G
>>
>>
>
>
>Please quote me the chapter and verse in NFPA (or NEC) where it says
>this.  The "definition" doesn't count.  It's only a definition and has
>more to do with helping an AHJ to properly identify the components used
>in a listed fire alarm system.
>
>I can purchase an Edwards EST-2 and connect any number of devices to it
>that I want.  It won't be a "fire alarm system" unless all of the
>devices, components and wiring that comprise the "system" comply.  I can
>hook up any number of smoke alarms (110VAC or 24VDC powered) and you
>can't say "squat" unless of course I intend to use them instead of
>properly supervised detectors and still try to make the system fly as a
>*fire alarm system*.
>
>Fire alarm systems have been used to *monitor* such things as dampers
>(the last time I looked the limit switches used are *NOT* listed for
>connection to a fire alarm system but they're used for the purpose of
>*monitoring* the position of the dampers).  Ditto for such things as
>"fire pump running" indicators, "generator trouble", exhaust fan "on"
>switches, etc.  The contacts in these devices are *NOT* specifically
>listed for connection to a fire alarm system yet it's done all the time.
>
>I can "monitor" a 110VAC smoke alarm relay with my burg panel if I want.
>  I can even get the zone it's connected to to report to my CS or my
>pager.  There is *NOTHING* in NEC (or NFPA) that specifically prohibits
>this.  Heck...  I can even hook up my 110VAC smoke alarm to a Visonic
>voice dialer.  This does NOT make the components I used a "listed fire
>alarm system" by any stretch of the imagination.  You're approaching
>this from the "wrong end" of the equation.  Talk to your local AHJ.


I'll have to get back to you on that..

>
>Would I "cobble" something like this together for a customer?  Not on
>your Nelly!  Now ask Bass what prompted him to suggest to a licensed,
>qualified *installer* how to circumvent the primary phone line on a
>*listed fire alarm communicator* so that it reports a "test signal" on
>the second line.

How would I know where he dreamed that up, I was astounded too.


> From where I sit, he's the horse's ass and you've just made the costume
>complete.

That was rude!