Re: 2 wire vs 4 wire Smoke allarms

[Frank Olson <Use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

G. Morgan wrote:

> Anytime you connect a fire device to a burglar alarm it becomes a
> "fire alarm" and all applicable codes must be followed.   Including
> but not limited to appropriate fire cabling to the keypads and sirens,
> proper detector coverage and spacing, and....  yes..  devices that are
> listed for FACP initiation.   In this case the BRK smokes are not
> listed for that purpose.
>
> -G
>
>


Please quote me the chapter and verse in NFPA (or NEC) where it says
this.  The "definition" doesn't count.  It's only a definition and has
more to do with helping an AHJ to properly identify the components used
in a listed fire alarm system.

I can purchase an Edwards EST-2 and connect any number of devices to it
that I want.  It won't be a "fire alarm system" unless all of the
devices, components and wiring that comprise the "system" comply.  I can
hook up any number of smoke alarms (110VAC or 24VDC powered) and you
can't say "squat" unless of course I intend to use them instead of
properly supervised detectors and still try to make the system fly as a
*fire alarm system*.

Fire alarm systems have been used to *monitor* such things as dampers
(the last time I looked the limit switches used are *NOT* listed for
connection to a fire alarm system but they're used for the purpose of
*monitoring* the position of the dampers).  Ditto for such things as
"fire pump running" indicators, "generator trouble", exhaust fan "on"
switches, etc.  The contacts in these devices are *NOT* specifically
listed for connection to a fire alarm system yet it's done all the time.

I can "monitor" a 110VAC smoke alarm relay with my burg panel if I want.
  I can even get the zone it's connected to to report to my CS or my
pager.  There is *NOTHING* in NEC (or NFPA) that specifically prohibits
this.  Heck...  I can even hook up my 110VAC smoke alarm to a Visonic
voice dialer.  This does NOT make the components I used a "listed fire
alarm system" by any stretch of the imagination.  You're approaching
this from the "wrong end" of the equation.  Talk to your local AHJ.

Would I "cobble" something like this together for a customer?  Not on
your Nelly!  Now ask Bass what prompted him to suggest to a licensed,
qualified *installer* how to circumvent the primary phone line on a
*listed fire alarm communicator* so that it reports a "test signal" on
the second line.

 From where I sit, he's the horse's ass and you've just made the costume
complete.