Re: I think they've done it again.

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:449db3a6.166255390@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I don't think it is a "small" flicker. Some people are losing bulbs.
>
> I was taking the humanoid perception threshold into consideration when I
> wrote that I thought it would require rather large anomolies to cause
> perceptible flicker.

One of the sites I looked at mentioned that brightness changes are much more
detectable than motion changes, ostensibly because of the larger number of
receptors involved.  It would be nice to have more information about the
nature of the flicker because it's so subjective an issue and the reports
range from mild flickering to full blown flashing.  There's not enough
detail in the reports to form an accurate conclusion as to actual intensity
of at least the low level flickering.  At least not that I can see.

> You need to read that Insteon forum carefully (and maybe also read the
> AccessHA thread some have referenced).

I read it over pretty carefully as I've been discussing it off-line with
another CHA'er.  There seem to be at least two problems people are
describing and it's not clear whether they are intimately related to each
other.  I think the people with the big flashes are experiencing a problem
perhaps only marginally related to the flicker issue.  I still suspect those
folks are experiencing issues related to bad neutrals.  It will become
apparent if I am right or wrong if those flashing reports persist after the
fix but the flickering reports fade.

> I think the "SmarthomeJohn" comment
> is from the other thread and is a year old.

Respectfully disagree, sir!  I recall I had to look hard for a date on the
messages and at first only saw the word "Today" without reference to a year.
It seems that the board's designers believe that the day a poster joined was
the most important number to place on the message header.  Look again.  It's
easy to be confused by how they do things in their HTML but with a straight
text copy it shows clearly that SmarthomeJohn's post had a message date of
May 20, 2006 but a join date featured more prominently that says July 2005:

http://forums.accessha.com/showthread.php?t=1137&page=3&pp=15&highlight=chok
e

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<quote>

05-20-2006, 07:17 PM
SmarthomeJohn
Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 72

<<Quote:
Originally Posted by dbaustin
Can we take it from your last posting that the problem is a component that
needs to changed? If so, what stage is that in (testing in lab, beta
testing, in ETL) and do you have an approx. time frame to the consumer? >>

The component is the choke coil. We found that the repeated Insteon signals
generated by the dimmer was getting into the traic and causing the flicker.
Basically, we are upping the value to attenuate the Insteon signals that go
into the triac.

We are using this new part on the ToggleLinc Dimmers now in production and
it should appear in SL V2 Dimmers and ICON models by probably this July (no
promises!).

We looked for an easy field fix for this, but couldn't find anything that
worked well or didn't mess with common electrical codes.

Disclaimer: don't use this information to figure out a fix for yourself.
Things could catch fire or kill you and that is a bad thing.

<endquote>

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In fact the last post their was registered a few days ago:

 06-22-2006, 08:05 PM
Redoubt
Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 37

Its been a month since the last update. Are the replacement dimmers still on
track for july?

I have several I still need to replace!

************************************************

> The load caused by the modules repeating the Insteon signal is small (per
> module) and is certainly much less than the loads represented by the
lamps.

I realize the large delta, but when the system's strained, it could be that
there's some effect that goes unnoticed normally, but might be caused by all
transmitters becoming active at once.  Where is the noise that the chokes
apparently are choking on coming from?  SmarthomeJohn says "We found that
the *repeated* Insteon signals generated by the dimmer was getting into the
traic and causing the flicker."  That seems to implicate the repeating
circuitry in the unit.

It's easy for me to believe, at least, that their desire to make the switch
as small as they could led to the selection of some undersized components
that a more conservative (and very likely much larger design) would have
avoided.  Is it possible that the choke heats up too much inside the small
switch body under large loads and fails to perform properly?

It's all speculation, though.  The nice part is that eventually, the truth
will be known!

--
Bobby G.