Re: I think they've done it again.

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

I don't think it is a "small" flicker. Some people are losing bulbs.

I was taking the humanoid perception threshold into consideration when I
wrote that I thought it would require rather large anomolies to cause
perceptible flicker.

You need to read that Insteon forum carefully (and maybe also read the
AccessHA thread some have referenced). I think the "SmarthomeJohn" comment
is from the other thread and is a year old.

The load caused by the modules repeating the Insteon signal is small (per
module) and is certainly much less than the loads represented by the lamps.

"Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
><stuff snipped>
>
>> In most of the reports, the Insteon device is at about 20% dim level when
>> the flicker occurs. This would put the triac switch-on point well past the
>> ZC.
>
>Do you think that it's flickering the same, small amount when brighter but
>that it's less noticeable as the lamp brightens?
>
>In filmmaking, the human flicker fusion threshold seems to be around 16
>hertz (Hz) although most movies are recorded at 24 frames per second, and TV
>with PAL and NTSC even faster.  Motion seems continuous at 25 or 30 fps but
>brightness deltas may still be noticeable.  People can reliably detect much
>faster flicker rates indirectly by various stroboscopic effects like the
>ghost image of a airplane propeller slowly moving superimposed over the blur
>of the rotating blades or wagon wheels seeming to rotate slowly backwards.
>
>Anyway, the point of all that was to posit that the Insteon lights are
>likely to be flickering at < 25 time per second to be detectable by the
>human eye.
>
>In one of the threads you cited previously, a "dbaustin" said: "For me, the
>problem is only on loads over 240 watts, which is about 8 out of 80 devices.
>However, it is a problem for 100% of my house since these 8 loads provide
>the primary lighting and they all blink if dimmed with every bit of Insteon
>traffic."
>
>It sounds very much like the Insteon signal itself is being rendered
>"visible" almost the way the battery LED on a boombox dims as very loud bass
>passages play.  I recall having a CRT that would flutter in time to loud
>bass played using a receiver on the same circuit as the CRT.
>
>"Dbaustin" reported something that others have reported as well:  that this
>problem appears to be related to running the switches at full load.
>
>When an Insteon signal is sent, do all the other Insteon switches in
>"earshot" repeat the signal?  Would the power consumption of each switch
>rise as it transmitted or would it stay the same?  What would be the effect
>of up to 80 small loads suddenly drawing current, especially on a branch
>where there was already a large load running?
>
>The rest of that thread has a tantalizing message from SmarthomeJohn made
>yesterday that says:
>
>"We have found a field fix that is simple to apply to a problematic dimmer
>that has "mild" flickering. There are some varying opinions as to whether we
>should offer this kit. I believe SmartLabsMike would like to hear some
>thoughts from the community."
>
>http://forums.accessha.com/showthread.php?s=a6a3751b89b977309ac470704bd7899d
>&t=1137&page=4&pp=15&highlight=choke
>
>I just hope someone takes some photos of the modules before Insteon swaps
>the troublesome units so we can know for sure what's been changed.