Re: I think they've done it again.

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

The latest post from Dave Walters to the Smarthome Insteon forum appears to
refute the bad choke/bad triac theories. He has swapped 3-4 switches that
worked OK in other locations with the one switch that is giving him a
problem and 'all' of them exhibit the problem when in that location (and
under the same load/dim conditions).

I would sure like to see a 'scope on that switch location.

Bruce having the problem with Leviton X-10 switches reacting to Insteon
traffic would also appear to refute the choke/triac theories.

"bruceR" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>I'd be quite pleased if that were the fix. I spec'd deep boxes all through
>my house when it was built so I have plenty of room and I won't have to
>unlink/link everything.
>
>  <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:00:22 -0400, Marc F Hult
>> <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> <1f7t92ll7oa28ospsqhfbm3bdvmhqe5nco@xxxxxxx>:
>>
>> >
>> > Mike from INSTEON wrote in
>> > http://www.techmall.com/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=636&TOPIC_ID=180&FORUM_ID=9
>> >
>> > "The component that is in question is the choke coil. Repeated
>> > INSTEON signals generated by the dimmer or controller were getting
>> > into the triac and causing the flicker. We have increased the value
>> > of the choke coil to attenuate the INSTEON signals that go into the
>> > triac. "
>> >
>> >
>> > There are two inductors in an ICON dimmer with an MCU marked
>> > "GL2476D BETA" with stick-on label. They look just like those on
>> > the other model INSTEON dimmers I have.
>> >
>> > The large inductor (choke) is in series with the red AC _input_
>> > lead and consists in 4 turns of 14AWG on a ~15 mm diameter green
>> > toroid and has an inductance of ~18 uH (measured at 120 hz and
>> > 1000hz with an EXTECH LCR meter). The other terminal of the
>> > inductor is connected directly to the input of the TRIAC.
>> >
>> > In contrast, the choke on an X10 WS467 is about 45 turns of ~16 AWG
>> > on a 25mm long ferrite rod and measures  44 uH. This construction,
>> > size and inductance is typical of residential dimmers.
>> >
>> > "Specification grade" (architectural grade) dimmers have much larger
>> > inductors. This is one of the inherent advantages of centralized
>> > dimmers over wall-mounted dimmers because there is no practical
>> > limit to the size of the inductors in a centralized dimming panel.
>> >
>> > (The ICON dimmer also has another, low-current inductor in series
>> > with a diode near the coupling transformer.)
>> >
>> > If, as it appears, the problem is with the high-current input choke
>> > and can be solved by doubling the inductance, more turns on the
>> > inductor would do the trick if that doesn't cause the inductor to
>> > saturate. But if a physically larger inductor is needed, space will
>> > be a problem. The INSTEON dimmer cases are/can be made shallower
>> > than most other dimmers in part because the choke is smaller.
>>
>> As I understand it, a field fix that has been considered by SmartHome
>> is to wrap the load wire several times through a external toroid
>> choke core. In other words, add more inductance in series to the
>> (measly) ~18uH provided by the T-16 toroid choke (labeled L3) they
>> already have in the dimmers.
>>
>> That's easy enough to do if you have enough volume in the switch box
>> and is a conventional fix for filament buzz and other noise-induced
>> problems. Commercial de-buzzer coils  I am aware of are typically
>> need an additional or very large switch box.
>>
>> ... Marc
>> Marc_F_Hult
>> www.ECOntrol.org
>