Re: Ping: Jim (Napco PCI-Mini)

[mleuck <m.leuck@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Nov 8, 10:50=A0am, "Robert L Bass" <Sa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> "mleuck" wrote:
>
> > If your ADI rep says they aren't selling many of them then he is not st=
ating
> > fact...
>
> I've known these guys for many years and have no reason to doubt them.
> Conversely, I've seen you dissemble for years and have no reason to trust=
 your
> word on anything.

Hey here is a neat idea, try asking Honeywell

> > Or that you have 2 or 3 customers, still not an accurate representation=
 of the
> > industry
>
> I never claimed that my business, which caters to DIY, is representative =
of the
> industry at large. =A0The fact is though, that there is not a lot of dema=
nd for
> expensive touch screens to control burglar and fire alarms. =A0Home autom=
ators
> sometimes use them, but even among that group interest is marginal due to=
 the
> cost.

Expensive? Hardly

> > I think the fact they have created 4 different graphics keypads and Nap=
co
> > hasn't tells me quite a bit about who's cutting edge
>
> That you believe having a few touch scrteens makes Honeywell "cutting edg=
e" says
> more about your lack of knowledge than you might realize.

Someone who think customers don't want color touchscreens is a fool

> >> You saying it's not easy means nothing. I have
> >> DIYers who do what you do and do it faster.
>
> > Not if they are using the PC-MINI
>
> Now you're claiming that you can download a Napco system faster without a
> PCI-Mini than someone elese who is using one. =A0There's no end to your b=
ullshit,
> Leuck. =A0There is *no* faster way to DL a Napco panel than via PCI-Mini,=
 no
> matter who is doing it.

I didn't say Napco panel, it's a comparison

> > Nobody has asked because for your brand you can't
>
> No one asked because no one ever needed to do it. =A0People ask if someth=
ing is
> possible because they want it -- not because it's already doable. =A0Keep=
 trying
> though, Leuck. =A0This is fun.

Apparently then your entire website is only filled with items
customer's requested, interesting

> > Or like keypad programming you don't know how to do it
>
> You'd like to think that.

You've yet to prove me wrong, when someone here asks about it you
strangely go quiet

> >> and the remote location. Napco has had a telephone interfacte that doe=
s that
> >> for many years.
> > Constant? Perhaps you don't quite understand the technology
>
> On the contrary, it is you who don't understand. =A0In order to assure re=
mote
> access via the Internet, the local system *must* have constant access. =
=A0That's
> so simple even you should have known it.

Only when the customer is accessing it or when the hardware needs to
send an update

> >> Many other manufacturers offer similar devices. They're more popular t=
han
> >> Internet connected devices partly because they're simpler but also bec=
ause
> >> the client can access his system from any touch tome phone or cell pho=
ne.
>
> > Assuming his system is connected to the phone
>
> Phone connections are still far more ubiquitous than Internet. =A0In the =
few
> locations where no telco line is present Napco panels can communicate usi=
ng
> cellular communicators, the same as many other makes do. =A0

One-way communication unlike what the other makes can do

> Napco also allows for
> connection and/or monitoring over IP, but as previously explained, it's s=
till
> not a popular option.

If you've dealt with the setup and the chip changes yea I can see why
it's not popular

> > LOL! it's obvious you REALLY don't understand the technology, I'd love =
to see
> > someone hack into an Alarm.com system
>
> You figure a system connected to the Internet is hacker-proof? =A0On what=
 planet
> do you spend most of your waking hours?

Have fun trying to hack an Alarm.com module, that'll be fun


> You've made several snide comments recently about me not helping someone =
program
> a Napco Gemini panel by keypad. =A0The reason I don't like keypad program=
ming
> Napco is two-fold. =A0First, keypad data entry is prone to errors which c=
an cause
> serious problems.

Well you have to know how to do it first

>=A0Second, Napco has so many options that keypad programming any
> of their larger systems is impractical.

In most systems including Napco you don't have that many locations
that require programming, apparently you don't know that. Hey I hear
Napco even has a nifty quick program menu

> There's a third reason which is
> particular to my business model. =A0Since I sell online it's a given that
> virtually every customer has access to a PC and can use the software. =A0=
For my
> customers and for my staff (who also know how to program systems) it is s=
imply
> far better to do things using these new-fangled computing machines. =A0:^=
)

And to sell them obsolete dongles, modems etc, I'm suprised you don't
charge them for the software

> > Our company doesn't have receivers in the spare bedroom like yours
>
> That's a dodge and typical of your way of losing a debate. =A0When presen=
ted with
> facts that contradict your premise you post an insult. Back to the point,=
 even
> your company's system displays zone information on alarm screens. =A0That=
's common
> knowledge.

Yes they do and they include other information like CID and SIA zone
type and a lot more events than what is capable of being sent by a
Napco panel

> > On every Napco panel you can only report 8 different CID/SIA possible s=
ignals
> > on zones...
>
> That is not true. =A0The zone type AND the zone ID are sent, just as they=
 are with
> every other panel using the formats. =A0Armed with that information, the =
CS
> computer can tell the operator *exactly* what is happening and *exactly* =
where
> in the protected premises the problem is.

You have 8 total CID or SIA events that can be sent by a zone, it
can't send waterflow, freeze, true medical, sprinkler and a number of
other critical signals, everyone else can and has been able to for
years

> If your company does not utilise this valuable capability of the systems =
they
> monitor you are doing your customers a terrible disservice. =A0Do tell, L=
euck.
> Does Monitronics display this critical data so that police can be guided =
to the
> point of entry or do they just ignore it and tell the police that a zone
> programmed as "Interior Follower" or some such has been tripped?

Of course and we get the bonus CID "Interior follower" signal as well

> > even the lowest DSC can send well over 20. The fact that you have to ex=
plain
> > to the central station why you have explain to the central station why =
you
> > can't send a low temp signal seems silly these days when every other pa=
nel can
>
> File the above with the Department of Redundancy Department. =A0:^)

File Napco under Obsolete"

> I never had to explain anythying like that. =A0If Zone 11 has a temperatu=
re sensor
> in it, the CS' data entry sheet is noted with "Zone 11 - Low Temperature"=
. =A0When
> the zone trips the operator sees on screen, "Low Temperature Alarm" along=
 with
> the contact information.

Yes and it includes a CID burg signal that your forced to program for
that zone because of the limitations of the panel

> Every central station in the country uses a data entry form so that insta=
llers
> can specify what kind of sensor is in each zone (not just the zone progra=
mming
> options) as well as the precise location of the monitored device.

Many require the correct event code instead of some screwy automation
changes you'd have to make with your panel, hell you might as well
just send 4/2

> > seems every other manufacturer except DSC has had that for years now...
>
> Had what?
>
> > Asset protection sensors, touchplates, RF keypads...on and on and on
>
> Honeywell only recently came out with wireless asset protection sensors. =
=A0I've
> had one client who wanted to use them but it turned out they would not fu=
nction
> in his application (a train, actually). If another customer ever asks for
> wireless asset protection, I'll consider them again.

A train? Umm okay

> > I can't understand then why you actively sell it on your website then
>
> I have a number of customers who already own DSC systems. =A0They occasio=
nally
> need parts. =A0The same is true of FBII. =A0They haven't made a new panel=
 in ages
> but people still use them, including one eastern European country that lo=
ves
> using them for their consulates. =A0Go figure.

Yet you claim they are substandard panels

>
> >Considering we monitor well over 150,000 cellular/IP products I'd say yo=
u are
> >quite inaccurate
>
> I don't believe you.

ADT is somewhere close to that figure, Brinks is the largest installer
of Honeywell IP products.

But your customers don't care for cellular/IP products, thats funny!