Re: Ping: Jim (Napco PCI-Mini)

["Robert L Bass" <Sales@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"mleuck" wrote:
>
> If your ADI rep says they aren't selling many of them then he is not stating
> fact...

I've known these guys for many years and have no reason to doubt them.
Conversely, I've seen you dissemble for years and have no reason to trust your
word on anything.

> Or that you have 2 or 3 customers, still not an accurate representation of the
> industry

I never claimed that my business, which caters to DIY, is representative of the
industry at large.  The fact is though, that there is not a lot of demand for
expensive touch screens to control burglar and fire alarms.  Home automators
sometimes use them, but even among that group interest is marginal due to the
cost.

> I think the fact they have created 4 different graphics keypads and Napco
> hasn't tells me quite a bit about who's cutting edge

That you believe having a few touch scrteens makes Honeywell "cutting edge" says
more about your lack of knowledge than you might realize.

>> You saying it's not easy means nothing. I have
>> DIYers who do what you do and do it faster.
>
> Not if they are using the PC-MINI

Now you're claiming that you can download a Napco system faster without a
PCI-Mini than someone elese who is using one.  There's no end to your bullshit,
Leuck.  There is *no* faster way to DL a Napco panel than via PCI-Mini, no
matter who is doing it.

>> You're comparing customers to hardware??? Some of my DIY clients have
>> designed
>> and built their own HA systems. One of them, a fellow named Helmke bought a
>> P9600 from me years ago. I provided him with the data he needed to get it to
>> talk to a PC (at the time there were no HA apps that worked with Napco). That
>> client now sells the software product he developed. Perhaps you've heard of
>> it -- Homeseer.

> Good for him, I hope the next panel he picks will be a bit more up to date,
> like an NX-8E or Vista.

Neither FBII nor Honeywell makes a single panel that can interface with
3rd-party apps like Homeseer.  Honeywell's top-of-the-line panels don't even
come close.  So much for their "cutting edge" technology.

> Nobody has asked because for your brand you can't

No one asked because no one ever needed to do it.  People ask if something is
possible because they want it -- not because it's already doable.  Keep trying
though, Leuck.  This is fun.

> Or like keypad programming you don't know how to do it

You'd like to think that.

>> There are easier ways to check system status
>> remotely without worrying about constant access to the Internet at both the
>> site
>> and the remote location. Napco has had a telephone interfacte that does that
>> for many years.

> Constant? Perhaps you don't quite understand the technology

On the contrary, it is you who don't understand.  In order to assure remote
access via the Internet, the local system *must* have constant access.  That's
so simple even you should have known it.

>> Many other manufacturers offer similar devices. They're more popular than
>> Internet connected devices partly because they're simpler but also because
>> the client can access his system from any touch tome phone or cell phone.
>
> Assuming his system is connected to the phone

Phone connections are still far more ubiquitous than Internet.  In the few
locations where no telco line is present Napco panels can communicate using
cellular communicators, the same as many other makes do.  Napco also allows for
connection and/or monitoring over IP, but as previously explained, it's still
not a popular option.

> LOL! it's obvious you REALLY don't understand the technology, I'd love to see
> someone hack into an Alarm.com system

You figure a system connected to the Internet is hacker-proof?  On what planet
do you spend most of your waking hours?

> BTW You keep mentioning this 60 different options for every zone, it's obvious
> you haven't looked at the Vista-20P's configurable zones which would likely
> put each zone option quite a bit higher than 60...

Yes, I have looked at the Vista-20P's configurable zone types -- all 25 options.
Clearly you have not.  :^)

You can find them listed on the worksheet in the Vista-20P installer manual.
There are 10 data points for each zone.  That's it.  I've forgotten exactly how
many total programmable points there are in the Vista-20P's memory.  IIRC, it's
around three or four hundred addresses.  The *basic* Napco Gemini P1632 there
are 1198 programmable addresses. I need to clarify something here.  There are
over 60 options on the P3200 and up.  The lowlt P1632 has only 51 options for
each zone.

You've made several snide comments recently about me not helping someone program
a Napco Gemini panel by keypad.  The reason I don't like keypad programming
Napco is two-fold.  First, keypad data entry is prone to errors which can cause
serious problems.  Second, Napco has so many options that keypad programming any
of their larger systems is impractical.  There's a third reason which is
particular to my business model.  Since I sell online it's a given that
virtually every customer has access to a PC and can use the software.  For my
customers and for my staff (who also know how to program systems) it is simply
far better to do things using these new-fangled computing machines.  :^)

> Our company doesn't have receivers in the spare bedroom like yours

That's a dodge and typical of your way of losing a debate.  When presented with
facts that contradict your premise you post an insult. Back to the point, even
your company's system displays zone information on alarm screens.  That's common
knowledge.

> On every Napco panel you can only report 8 different CID/SIA possible signals
> on zones...

That is not true.  The zone type AND the zone ID are sent, just as they are with
every other panel using the formats.  Armed with that information, the CS
computer can tell the operator *exactly* what is happening and *exactly* where
in the protected premises the problem is.

If your company does not utilise this valuable capability of the systems they
monitor you are doing your customers a terrible disservice.  Do tell, Leuck.
Does Monitronics display this critical data so that police can be guided to the
point of entry or do they just ignore it and tell the police that a zone
programmed as "Interior Follower" or some such has been tripped?

> even the lowest DSC can send well over 20. The fact that you have to explain
> to the central station why you have explain to the central station why you
> can't send a low temp signal seems silly these days when every other panel can

File the above with the Department of Redundancy Department.  :^)

I never had to explain anythying like that.  If Zone 11 has a temperature sensor
in it, the CS' data entry sheet is noted with "Zone 11 - Low Temperature".  When
the zone trips the operator sees on screen, "Low Temperature Alarm" along with
the contact information.

Every central station in the country uses a data entry form so that installers
can specify what kind of sensor is in each zone (not just the zone programming
options) as well as the precise location of the monitored device.

>> When a signal comes in using CID it says the nature of the problem and the
>> specific zone that was triggered. Even in the small central station I ran for
>> many years the operator's screen would display, "Burglary: Front Entry Door"
>> or whatever.

> Burg sure, try temperature sometime, and it's too bad they still can't tell
> what the type of burg zone it is like everyone else does

Working in New England, I routinely installed temperature monitoring devices. We
monitored them for more than 20 years and never once had trouble understanding
the display on an operator's screen when one was tripped.

>> It is significant that in this argument you deliberately ignore the fact that
>> the various sub-types of alarm codes available with CID do not specify
>> *where* the alarm originated -- only the type of zone activated (delay,
>> instant, interior, etc.). While this is somewhat handy, it is not as
>> important as knowing the specific opening or location involved.

> CID isn't designed to do that and neither is SIA, only Radionics can also send
> the zone description...

You made my point.  It's not just the alarm code but the zone ID that defines
what went off.  With that information, which is standard everywhere, sub-zone
type is of marginal to the responding personel.  Furthermore, if the alarm
company really wants that information to be displayed, it can very easily be
included in the data entry when the system is connected for monitoring.

> Or CO2 detectors...

We're talking about panels.  Lots of companies make CO detectors and Napco can
monitor them.  Why would you even want a CO2 detector?

> seems every other manufacturer except DSC has had that for years now...

Had what?

> Asset protection sensors, touchplates, RF keypads...on and on and on

Honeywell only recently came out with wireless asset protection sensors.  I've
had one client who wanted to use them but it turned out they would not function
in his application (a train, actually). If another customer ever asks for
wireless asset protection, I'll consider them again.

> Oh wait people don't call about it so it's not important

I'd like to see Napco make a wireless keypad.  That would be nice.

> I can't understand then why you actively sell it on your website then

I have a number of customers who already own DSC systems.  They occasionally
need parts.  The same is true of FBII.  They haven't made a new panel in ages
but people still use them, including one eastern European country that loves
using them for their consulates.  Go figure.

>Considering we monitor well over 150,000 cellular/IP products I'd say you are
>quite inaccurate

I don't believe you.

> Napco's introduced a 1664, that's the problem with smaller manufacturers, they
> don't have the R&D to create new products and instead keep releasing obsolete
> stuff

I recently added the P1664 to our website.  It has some nice features and
supports Napco's new keypads, including the ones with temperature display and
monitoring.  Nice.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
DIY Alarm and Home Automation Store
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
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Fax 941-870-3252
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