Re: Ping: Jim (Napco PCI-Mini)

["Robert L Bass" <Sales@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"mleuck" wrote:
>
> Honeywell is selling a lot of [graphic keypads] which is why...

So you claim, but my ADI rep says that's not true.  They're not moving many of
them at all, especially compared to converntional keypads.  Having examined the
Honeywell graphic touchpads, I can see why they're not that popular.  They offer
very little *usable* functionality yet they cost significantly more than
standard keypads.

> I guess we can live without that one, too.

> Well you have no choice and just because you get 2 or 3 queries a year doesn't
> mean they aren't wanted

No, it meant that about 2 or 3 people a year express interest in them.  From my
perspective that indicates they're just not needed.  Clearly, Napco's
development team (who probably know more than you) has decided it's not woth the
expense.

I suspect the main reason Honeywell even offers graphic keypads is to be able to
say they have something cutting edge.  Considering their alarm products have
always lagged behind the rest of the industry that's not surprising.  This isn't
just my take on the matter.  Many others here have said the same thing --
perhaps even you.

>> Napco has an IP interface but I have not tried it so I can't comment.

> Only works with a couple of panels and even then requires a chip upgrade, not
> easy to set up behind firewalls

You saying it's not easy means nothing.  I have DIYers who do what you do and do
it faster.

>> Can your vaunted DIY customers download over cell? Uhh no yet DSC, GE/Caddx,
>> Honeywell can

You're comparing customers to hardware???  Some of my DIY clients have designed
and built their own HA systems.  One of them, a fellow named Helmke bought a
P9600 from me years ago.  I provided him with the data he needed to get it to
talk to a PC (at the time there were no HA apps that worked with Napco).  That
client now sells the software product he developed.  Perhaps you've heard of
it -- Homeseer.

>> I don't recall anyone ever asking to do so. You, on the other hand, routinely
>> harp on the "fact" that most installers don't download at all.

> Well you don't offer the equipment and don't know it exists so I imagine
> nobody asks you about it

Correct.  No one has ever asked me to download a Naqpco panel by cell phone.
That's pretty good for you -- about 1 out of 30.

> I did say most installers don't download, it has nothing to do with this
> discussion.

Yes, you did.  You've said it repeatedly.  The bearing on this discussion is it
illustrates how disingenuous you are -- trying to belittle my products because
they don't do something you have elsewhere claimed is of no import.

>> Control over the Internet like Alarm.com? uhh no
>
> Same thing. Those who want Internet control usually ask for a home automation
> system. We sell those as well. However, a fair number of my clients have
> integrated Napco systems with PC-centric home automation systems. The systems
> can be accessed and controlled over the Internet or LAN.

> I'm talking about those who don't have home automation systems which far
> outnumber those who do.

Those who don't have an interest in HA rarely express any interest in Internet
access to their alarms.  If they really want that, I can do it with Napco but
IMO it's not worth the bother.  There are easier ways to check system status
remotely without worrying about constant access to the Internet at both the site
and the remote location.  Napco has had a telephone interfacte that does that
for many years.  Many other manufacturers offer similar devices.  They're more
popular than Internet connected devices partly because they're simpler but also
because the client can access his system from any touch tome phone or cell
phone.

> A home automation system shouldn't be required to do something simple like
> control an alarm panel over the Internet

Wrong.  The Internet shouldn't be required to do something so simple as control
an alarm system.  Also, by connecting an alarm to the Internet one opens the
door to the possibility of hackers disabling the alarm.

> GE, 2GIG and Honeywell can, Napco can't.

Napco decided not to.  I agree.

> There over are 60 indepentantly selectably options for every zone on a typical
> Napco panel. System-wide options are far more flexible than anything from
> Honeywell, GE or DSC -- arguably the most popular brands among dealers who
> post
> here. Napco is also far better built than DSC.

Offset by the limited CID or SIA signal reporting...

Nope.  That is a deliberate misrepresentation and you know it.  IOW, you're
lying.  Every competent CS lists precisely what is in each zone.  Note: I said
"competent."  I don't know what your company does.

When a signal comes in using CID it says the nature of the problem and the
specific zone that was triggered.  Even in the small central station I ran for
many years the operator's screen would display, "Burglary: Front Entry Door" or
whatever.

It is significant that in th8is argument you deliberately ignore the fact that
the various sub-types of alarm codes available with CID do not specify *where*
the alarm originated -- only the type of zone activated (delay, instant,
interior, etc.).  While this is somewhat handy, it is not as important as
knowing the specific opening or location involved.

> lack of hardware like the previously mentioned graphics keypads, more diverse
> wireless
and expansion modules that everyone else has

More diverse wireless expansion modules?  Napco offers various wireless
receivers and also keypads with built-in receivers.  I'd like to see a repeater
added to the mix for extremely large locations but that's about it.

> I've downloaded DSC and Honeywell a number of times over IP without making
> trips between panels and keypads, you must be thinking old products again

I've woprked with DSC.  The products are simple, poorly designed and of flimsy
construction.  I can understand why you feel so at home using the stuff.

> Yea it's called a cellular or IP module which every system should have...

Bullshit!  You know damn well most installers aren't going to spring for a
cellular or IP module and most clients don't want one either.

> Honeywell offers over a dozen different cellular or IP products that are
> bus-compatible with their panels, Napco offers 2 and they only do dialer
> capture

Honeywell offers unnecessary modules but their main products have not been
significantly upgraded in a decade.

> But then, you're the guy who claims that downloading is of no importance since
> almost no dealers (according to you) use downloading software.

> I haven't sold any of those panels. Come to think of it, I don't recall any
> customers ever asking about them either.

> Well if you don't sell them people don't generally ask about them

If they wanted them I'd consider offering them.

> ... guess I was wrong

But of course.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

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