Re: Ping: Jim (Napco PCI-Mini)

[mleuck <m.leuck@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Nov 6, 10:19=A0am, "Robert L Bass" <Sa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> "mleuck" wrote:
>
> >> Most choose Napco because of its power and flexibility.
>
> > Yet they still haven't created a decent IP module A graphic touch keypa=
d A
> > wireless keypad
>
> Apparently, Napco feels there isn't much of a market for ta graphic touch=
pad.
> Considering how few of them Honeywell sells, they're probably right.

Honeywell is selling a lot of them which is why they have 3 on the
market now with a 4th out soon


> Napco offers wireless keyfobs but has no wireless keypad. =A0I get about =
2 or 3
> queries for one per year though we sell several Napco systems a day. =A0I=
 guess we
> can live without that one, too.

Well you have no choice and just because you get 2 or 3 queries a year
doesn't mean they aren't wanted

> Napco has an IP interface but I have not tried it so I can't comment.

Only works with a couple of panels and even then requires a chip
upgrade, not easy to set up behind firewalls

> > Can your vaunted DIY customers download over cell? Uhh no yet DSC, GE/C=
addx,
> > Honeywell can
>
> I don't recall anyone ever asking to do so. =A0You, on the other hand, ro=
utinely
> harp on the "fact" that most installers don't download at all.

Well you don't offer the equipment and don't know it exists so I
imagine nobody asks you about it

I did say most installers don't download, it has nothing to do with
this discussion.

> > Control over the Internet like Alarm.com? uhh no
>
> Same thing. =A0Those who want Internet control usually ask for a home aut=
omation
> system. =A0We sell those as well. =A0However, a fair number of my clients=
 have
> integrated Napco systems with PC-centric home automation systems. =A0The =
systems
> can be accessed and controlled over the Internet or LAN.

I'm talking about those who don't have home automation systems which
far outnumber those who do. A home automation system shouldn't be
required to do something simple like control an alarm panel over the
Internet

GE, 2GIG and Honeywell can, Napco can't


> There over are 60 indepentantly selectably options for every zone on a ty=
pical
> Napco panel. =A0System-wide options are far more flexible than anything f=
rom
> Honeywell, GE or DSC -- arguably the most popular brands among dealers wh=
o post
> here. =A0Napco is also far better built than DSC.

Offset by the limited CID or SIA signal reporting, lack of hardware
like the previously mentioned graphics keypads, more diverse wireless
and expansion modules that everyone else has

> > Napco takes far longer to download not because they are transferring an=
y more
> > data than
>
> anyone else but their method of data transfer is slow
>
> If you find it slow then you're not doing it right. =A0The typical Napco =
panel
> takes a few seconds to download. =A0Contrast that with DSC, which takes s=
o long
> and requires trips from panel to keypad and back just to get started. =A0=
Data
> transfer to a Napco panel via PCI-Mini (in case you don't remember, that =
is the
> subject of this thread) is lightning fast by comparison.

I've downloaded DSC and Honeywell a number of times over IP without
making trips between panels and keypads, you must be thinking old
products again

> The PC-Mini is a long obsolete piece of equpiment. No other
> manufacturer requires dongles like that to direct-connect their
> panels.
>
> Then again, most panels can't be direct-connected at all or, like Honeywe=
ll,
> require a more costly -- *dedicated* -- serial interface which cannot be =
used
> for any other purpose. =A0The same is true of GE panels.

Yea it's called a cellular or IP module which every system should have
these days and also allows controlling over the Internet..

Honeywell offers over a dozen different cellular or IP products that
are bus-compatible with their panels, Napco offers 2 and they only do
dialer capture

>=A0But then, you're the guy
> who claims that downloading is of no importance since almost no dealers
> (according to you) use downloading software.

I never said it was not important, I said few installers do it

> On that subject, I think it's worth examining your perspective. =A0You wo=
rk for a
> company that monitors and programs panels for dealers around the country.=
 =A0As
> such, you're more likely to encounter a subset of dealers -- those who ha=
ve less
> need to use downloading software. =A0In all probability your perspective =
is
> inaccurately colored by not being exposed to *most* installers. =A0I don'=
t say
> this to belittle you -- only to point out that you may not be seeing the =
overall
> picture.

My information came from Honeywell, DSC, Napco and GE engineers and
reps over the years not my own perspective.

> It is certain that my perspective as to end user needs varies from yours =
since
> my clients are mainly DIYers. =A0My average customer has more skills and =
a better
> understanding of or, at least, a greater interest in learning his securit=
y
> system's capabilities. =A0

That is your perspective however since you ONLY know how to download
and do not know or are inexperienced with keypad programming it makes
sense that most of your customers will download their panels. As we
found with the guy from Greece last month not everyone has the
equipment or wants to download a panel just to change one or two minor
programming locations.

With all your experience you couldn't help him, with my supposedly
limited experience I could

> As such, the DIY user is more likely to insist on the
> kind of flexibility Napco offers. =A0He may have been be snookered by som=
e
> character into buying a DSC or something like that but that won't happen =
again.

> > Napco doesn't seem to agree with you since they also make the low-end X=
P and
> > GEM panels
>
> I haven't sold any of those panels. =A0Come to think of it, I don't recal=
l any
> customers ever asking about them either.

Well if you don't sell them people don't generally ask about them

> Only an idiot would prefer keypad programming Napco panels. =A0There are =
too many
> ways to screw up the system doing it that way. =A0Using the free download=
ing
> software it's a snap to get it right the first time.

Napco doesn't supply those 3 big programming/installation manuals in
every panel because they think people are idiots. I assumed that some
of that 20 minutes you claim to spend educating the customer is about
simple keypad programming, guess I was wrong

> > that doesn't surprise me but Does the Darth Vader breathing cost extra?
>
> Huh??

heh