Re: Wire type for peripherals on residential burg/fire panels

[JoeRaisin <joeraisin2001@xxxxxxxxx>]

Effenpig1 wrote:
> On Dec 18, 9:34 pm, "Crash Gordon" <webmas...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>> how would using fire wire on a keypad be considered fire "protection" ? most
>> fire systems don't provide protection...detection yes.
>>
>> is there code on this?
>>
>> --
>> **Crash Gordon**
>>
>> "Kid" <k...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4b277cf7$0$8227$c5fe31e7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>> if there is a fire panic button on the keypad then there is fire
>>> protection.
>>> "Crash Gordon" <webmas...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:4b2725cd$1$89869$815e3792@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> It can't hurt, but if there's no fire detection to begin with on a
>>>> residential system....why would you want to?...because there might be one
>>>> day?
>>>> --
>>>> **Crash Gordon**
>>>> "Effenpig1" <dirtyspicev...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>> news:e332db35-aae0-4d62-822f-bd94dfdd7cb9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> On Dec 13, 7:31 pm, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 13, 7:15 pm, Effenpig1 <dirtyspicev...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>> For residential burg I use 18 gauge FPLR to wire keypads,
>>>>>>> transformers, sirens, and of course fire devices ( and CO). I do this
>>>>>>> whether or not the system will include fire devices initially. My
>>>>>>> thought being if I don't and the owner decides on fire protection
>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>> the line it would be more work.
>>>>>>> Curious as to how other installers deal with this. The company I
>>>>>>> worked for before I started my business never used fire wire, even
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the fire devices themselves.
>>>>>> Let me put it to you this way
>>>>>> One of the side things I do is Fire Investigation for Insurance
>>>>>> companies.
>>>>>> the very first question they ask on form they send for a failure
>>>>>> analysis investigation asks. Does the system meet all codes code at
>>>>>> time it was installed.
>>>>>> 2nd question is would system have functioned properly had code been
>>>>>> followed. 3rd question is were proper permits and inspections done.
>>>>>> If I walk in on a system that has failed and find telco or any other
>>>>>> type of wire being used for the smokes and heats etc. that would be a
>>>>>> violation of NEC and NFPA -ICC
>>>>>> You are doing the right thing. absolutely the others are leaving them
>>>>>> selves exposed. and no matter how you write a contract sooner or later
>>>>>> you will get popped and even if you win what it is costing in time and
>>>>>> money will be horrendous.
>>>>>> I got sued because an asshole customer was to lazy to check his system
>>>>>> after it went off and police looked in and saw no one because they
>>>>>> were in a back room breaking into the safe.
>>>>>> Thank God jury saw this case for what it was but it still cost how
>>>>>> many days time and money defending it.
>>>>> What about wiring the keypad, siren,and transformer with FPLR on
>>>>> systems with fire? How about systems without fire in case of future
>>>>> add-ons, any one think either is unnecessary?
>
> I would think only sprinkler systems and the like would be protection.

Wouldn't there be a difference between fire protection equipment and
life/safety equipment?

The way the discussion has gone has left me confused - would a pull
station be fire protection or life/safety?  Would it make a difference
whether it triggered a suppression system, audio-visual alarm or both?