Re: Why Don't You Like DSC? (Addressed to those that don't.)

["Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> >
> > Way .... way ..... wait a minute!!!!! ....... have you been talking
> > about KEYPAD programing all this time? What kind of dummy is going
to
> > hand program a 20 or 30 zone system by hand?  If they do, they
deserve
> > to run into and make as many mistakes as the can. How in the hell
do
> > you check for errors? I haven't hand programed a direct
downloadable
> > panel in so many years ....... I forget how long it's been. I can't
> > even remember the last time I looked in a programing manual, for
that
> > matter.
>
> Whats so hard about it? I have no problems programming 20 or 30 zones
on a
> Vista-20P or DSC 832 or Caddx NX-8, not going to happen with Napco
which is
> my point, Jim most people do NOT download panels which again is why
Napco is
> a blip on the screen in panel sales compared to other brands, they
are all
> flat out easier to program.

Well, as I say, it seems as if it's necessitated by the fact that
you're dealing with people who still use an abacus. Up at the front
line of civilization, people have discovered that a "puter" can be a
tool.

>
> > So ........ then ......... rather than comparing hand programing,
how
> > would you rate Napco compared to others with just downloading?
Never
> > mind the banging together of two keypads to start a fire method.
>
> With just downloading Napco is slow on the connect, getting status
etc
> compared to the others, it at least only downloads the information
that was
> changed. I still hate the day-glo looking software.


I presume you're talking remote download. I also presume that the other
panels programing expedites the procedures by "group" options, rather
than each and every individual option, as Napco does. This would also
expedite status request and download speed. But, I can't imagine it
being "that" much longer to be of concern.

Again, I've got nothing to compare to. And the colors "are" funky, but
that doesn't affect how it functions. I got the new windows version,
took a rainy weekend day at the dining room table and learned how to
use it. I thought it was kinda bad at the time, but ......... I'm
pretty used to it now. Haven't tried V5 (5) yet. Just looked at it.
Waiting for another rainy weekend.

>
> Thats why I always thought it was funny when people like RLB only
talk about
> downloading to change codes or maybe a couple of programming steps,
would I
> rather spend 10 to 15 minutes firing up the software, uploading the
panel,
> making a change then disconnecting or would I rather spend maybe
MAYBE 30
> seconds walking them through it at the keypad.

Changing codes can be done through the user programing. I don't need to
be involved or ...... I can walk them through it, from memeory, over
the phone.

>
>
> > Even if I did try out any other panel, I'd NEVER try to hand
program
> > it. Why would anyone? That's like buying a car and pushing it
wherever
> > you want to go.
>
> Again with a panel like a DSC PC832 it's very easy to program via
keypad,
> same with a GE Concord or Caddx

Well yeah but so is the FBI XL2 and a number of other panels. But, I've
always got my laptop with me so if it's dealer programing, I use the
tool that I have. Why should I have to carry the customers file with
the manuals with their programing, when it's all in the laptop.

>
> > > Yup, many in this newsgroup don't seem to realize most techs
program
> > via the
> > > keypad not downloader and I will not download a panel unless I
know
> > how to
> > > keypad program it first
> >
> > To each his own. Perhaps for what you do, that's what's necessary.
But
> > it'd be a cold day in hell before I'd hand program any direct
> > downloadable panel.
>
> Scenario #1: You are out riding a bicycle 40 miles from the house
when you
> get a call from a customer who needs a code change or some simple
program
> alteration before they go out of town in an hour, do you tell them
you'll be
> home in about 3 hours and download it or walk them through it?

I doon ride no steenking by-seekel! Esspeshally no 40 steenking miles,
Bro! An if I deed, I wont have no steenking phone wid me neeedr. Ya
know Homey? An, an eevan eef I deed, no one ess goin to know what my
number is anyways ... yeh. YO! Yoou got it, Bro?

>
> Scenario #2: You are spending 3 weeks in Brazil when a customer calls
asking
> for the same thing in Scenario #1 and you suddenly remember your
laptop is
> still in Florida or even better you discover your download modem
doesn't
> work worth crap with VOIP, do you tell the customer you'll be home in
3
> weeks to download it or walk them through it?



>
> Scenario #3: Customer's system has a zone trouble and because it's
tying up
> the phone line with trouble signals you can't connect, do you then
walk the
> customer through either deleting the zone temporarily/remove the
report code
> so you CAN download it or just tell em to kill power to the panel?


None of those things have ever happened. But, if I'm not instantly
available,  .......I'm not available. When I get the message, I'll try
to contact the client or download the panel or control reporting
through CS.

>
> Now you know why I won't download a panel without knowing how to
program it,
> see I've done Scenario #1 and #3 quite a number of times and someone
else in
> this newsgroup might discover scenario #2 rather quickly :)
>

Regardless of "whoS" panel I was using, I'd never walk a customer into
dealer programing ......... anyway. And why do others have these kind
of problems and I don't, I wonder?

> Besides, keypad program is designed into the panel, I see no reason
why it
> shouldn't be done.

Only if someone is requied (like YOU) should that be necessary. If
installers don't want to use these new fangled "puters", that's their
problem.

You can still use DOS to format disks, make directories, copy files,
view files, change time and date ... lots of other things ........ do
you? Windows is a tool, you use it, even though there's another older,
more complicated method available. You may have to use it ......... I
don't.

I'd say, to some extent, you're probably perpetuating keypad programing
in your customers, by offering them your skill in kepad programing. If
you didn't do it for them, they'd be out buying and learning how to use
a laptop, in no time.