Re: I think they've done it again.

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

Bruce,

I recall you also reported some problems when you tested UPB but cannot
recall the details.

"bruceR" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Well, here is one guy who has the problem. Before the coversion was complete
>Insteon devices were making certain Leviton X10 switches flicker and now
>that I'm 98% Insteon I still get some flickering. I will changeout the
>offenders when a fix is availble.
>
>
>"Marc F Hult" <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>news:aakv921aot72gv63ubsp3ec8niucgt4vd5@xxxxxxxxxx
>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:30:15 -0400, Marc F Hult
>> <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> <g2ut92do7d99l555jouk9fmttc15jefbv6@xxxxxxx>:
>>
>>>
>>>I'll look at the reports some more so as to be able to respond more
>>>usefully. I think that i understand your timing question and add the
>> comment
>>>that when I looked at line noise created by generic and X-10 WS467 dimmers
>>>several years ago, I found that the highest peak voltages were measured at
>>>about the 1/4 the RMS output IIRC.
>>>
>>>Recall that an inductor 'stretches' the duration of a pulse, so the delay
>>>caused by the L1 choke  might be long enough to trigger gate triggering in
>> a
>>>second TRIAC in a second dimmer when the delayed/stretched INSTEON PLC
>>>signal is _added_ to the TRIAC noise from the INSTEON TRIAC at some time
>>>significantly after zero crossing and that signal is not sufficiently
>>>attenuated (there are two issues here; timing and noise/signal strength.)
>>>
>>>Later ... Marc
>>>Marc_F_Hult
>>>www.ECOntrol.org
>>
>>
>> I conclude that as a an actual performance problem, this is a tempest in a
>> teapot: a problem nobody here has actually experienced (not surprising
>> since
>> it seems most folks participating in this thread may not even have an
>> INSTEON installation ;-)
>>
>> An INSTEON rep wrote in the thread I cited previously that: "We saw this
>> problem during the beta testing of the SwitchLinc dimmer in two units out
>> of
>> 800 beta samples." and goes on to give contact info for a person with a
>> flickering dimmer to be able to contact Smarthome on a Sunday to arrange
>> for
>> a replacement dimmer. The same rep reports that INSTEON spent $40,000
>> troubleshooting and replacing possible off-spec components before shipping
>> but apparently a few slipped through (or at least that is one explanation
>> offered).
>>
>> According to INSTEON, the dimmers with revised/QA'd TRIAsC/chokes  will be
>> shipping 4th Qtr which will presumably reduce problem frequency closer
>> even
>> to zero. I haven't experienced any problems myself nor apparently have the
>> vast majority of other INSTEON users. So the solution to this apparently
>> infrequent problem is at hand.
>>
>> As to the challenge of trying to divine the cause, first step is problem
>> definition which is problematic because reports are not consistent. I'd be
>> more interested if there was a way of testing the various hypotheses
>> posed.
>> Absent an actual case of flickering on which to test causes and remedies,
>> another way would be (eg Spice) modeling but that's more work than I'm
>> inclined to put into this particular academic exercise.
>>
>> ... Marc
>> Marc_F_Hult
>> www.ECOntrol.org
>