Re: Filing Cabinets That Use Electronic Access?

["W" <persistentone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

It's not a crazy idea to turn this idea into a product.     If you made it
right you would allow any pass card system to interface to it, then you do
marketing distribution deals with the vendors who make any passcard system.
They create all the customer demand for the product, and customers who buy
your product in turn need to buy more components from the passcard vendor.

The idea has legs, as they say.

--
W


"Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dd41a826-340b-4766-a4c6-d9113b3ed031@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Oct 1, 2:18 pm, "W" <persistent...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> "Bill" <billnomailnosp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> news:9eoqrdFdc3U1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> > "W" wrote in message
> > > So let me ask does *any* third party make an office filing cabinet
> > > that has
> > > a solinoid activated locking bar that we could wire into?
>
> > There are electronic combination locking vertical filing cabinets.
> > Note these tend to be higher security cabinets. I just looked at the
> > prices...
>
> > $2,229.00 for cabinet.
> > $537.00 for add-on electronic combination lock
> > =======
> > $2766.00 Total, but shipping probably extra.
>
> http://www.filingtoday.com/Fireproof_Fire-King_Vertical_Files_Cabinet...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > (For more search for filing cabinet combination lock.)
>
> > Note: The way these may work is that the top drawer only has this lock
> > on it. You enter the combination, then can open the top drawer. Then
> > you could open the lower drawers. So I think you need to open the top
> > drawer a bit in order to be able to open the lower drawers? You would
> > need to verify that.
>
> > Anyway that would have a drawback as to dependability so far as what
> > you want to do. A flexible cord would need to be wired to the top
> > drawer. Each time the drawer was opened it would stretch the cord.
> > That cord might last many years, but eventually it would fail and need
> > to be replaced.
>
> > And with such an electronic combination lock, you would pretty much
> > need to buy one, then take it apart to see if it could be modified so
> > just the lock portion could be wired to you card access system. Most
> > probably it could, however it might not be possible to modify it.
> > Pretty expensive way to find out if you could use a product or not!
>
> > If you already owned these cabinets, then that would be another
> > matter.
>
> > I think it would be much less expensive to have a custom locking
> > mechanism made for your existing filing cabinets.
>
> > I think this could be done by placing an electric solenoid / actuator
> > below the lowest drawer. Then the wiring to this would not need to
> > move as the actuator would be bolted to the cabinet and not a drawer.
> > Then no batteries needed as power for the actuator would come from the
> > wire / card access system.
>
> > I think the best way to approach this would be to get an electric
> > solenoid / actuator, THEN find a "mechanical type" who could design
> > rods / bars / levers, etc. which would connect the actuator to your
> > existing filing cabinet locking bar from below. That type of person
> > you would find at a machine shop. If you could take a filing cabinet
> > to this person, a soleonid / actuator, a battery to operate the
> > solenoid, and then tell the person how you connect the actuator wires
> > to the solenoid to get it to lock / unlock, then he could make and
> > install the interconnecting mechanism to do the rest.
>
> > It takes a LOT of pressure to move the locking bar on some filing
> > cabinets. That is... A lot of pressure from an electrical device. The
> > more force it can provide, the higher the cost of the actuator /
> > solenoid. With that said, a cheaper design might be to install a knob
> > where the existing key lock is. The solenoid / actuator would *allow*
> > the locking bar on the side of the cabinet to move freely. Then a
> > person would "do the work" of moving the bar by then turning the knob
> > to move the locking lever.
>
> > The mechanical type person could design this so it stayed unlocked
> > once it was unlocked. Or so it re-locked each time the drawers were
> > closed.
>
> > Anyway it would be easy to find a "mechanical type" to do the
> > mechanical parts for you. Look for an older guy. If all else fails, go
> > to your local university and find a mechanical engineering student.
> > They are all broke and will work cheap. Then need the money! And just
> > a few hundred dollars will make them happy or pay by the hour.
>
> > Also "mechanical types" and "electrical types" are different breeds!
> > Mechanical people do not understand electrical stuff and electrical
> > people are not so good at mechanical stuff. You need to get two
> > separate people for this.
>
> > Anyway the only question remaining is how does the "output" of a card
> > access system work? What is the output voltage? 12 volts DC? How much
> > amperage can it provide? 1 amp? How many different outputs can it
> > operate? (different doors it is designed to open? In your case, how
> > many filing cabinets do you have? Does the card access system have
> > that many different outputs?)
>
> > Then how does the card access system output work? (Like it was opening
> > a door.) Does it provide 12 volts for say 4 seconds, then power off?
> > Can this be changed to longer shorter in settings or is that time
> > fixed?
>
> > And note that you would NOT want the actuator to remain powered for
> > the full time the cabinet is open! Like powered for 8 hours. Solenoids
> > / actuators get hot when powered on for a long time. They can burn
> > out. Best is briefly on for a few seconds each time something is
> > opened.
>
> > Then if the above is how a card access system works, next would come
> > the type of solenoid you would want. Some will spring forward when
> > power is applied, then return when power is removed. Others will
> > spring forward when power is applied, then stay then when power is
> > removed. Then you need to reverse power to move it the opposite
> > direction.
>
> > So you would need a solenoid / actuator which would work along with
> > the output of your card access system.
>
> > A device which could work is the electric door lock actuator on cars.
> > Some of these work by moving one direction when power is applied, then
> > it stays there. And it will move the opposite direction when power is
> > reversed. You can get these cheap from automotive wrecking yards if
> > you just want to play with one. They are located in the door of the
> > car and 12 volts DC (car battery) operates them of course.
>
> > Or search google.com for solenoid. Or for actuator.
>
> > People who play / work on robots are quite familiar with solenoids and
> > actuators. Again a university electrical engineering department would
> > provide a host of people who would know all about this.
>
> > Before you do anything, remove the bottom drawer from one of your
> > filing cabinets and see if there is room below the drawer for an
> > electrical actuator....
>
> While this would be a fun project for someone, I really did not want to do
> an R&D project. R&D projects are both very expensive and also have a
> very high chance of failure. Further, without a lot of testing I would
> expect reliability problems. It's just not the path I wanted to go.
>
> --
> W-

I don't think it would take more than a couple of days actual work on
the cabinet to get this to work. The hardest thing would be finding
the proper parts to do the job. The waiting time for parts delivery
would take the most amount of time. Hmmmm .... maybe a few more days
combining the solinoid and access reader in a chassis. (see below)

One would just have to determine the distance the locking bar had to
travel and the amount of weight the solinoid would have to move. Order
a solinoid with those spec's that would fit in the space allowed ( by
the way, if it couldn't fit below the bottom drawer it could always go
in a metal chassis mounted to the top of the file cabinet .... in
fact, that would be my prefered placement.in a retrofit project like
this) I think it would be a pretty easy task to provide a link between
the solinoid and the locking bar from the top of the cabinet. If
you've ever used a Hon manual locking cabinet, when you unlock it, the
button in which the key cylinder is contained pops out from the
cabinet. When you want to lock it again, you just push the button back
in. That's all the pressure it takes to move the bar back to the
locked position. Each file cabinet could have the card reader and
solinoid in the metal chassis on top of each cabinet. The solinoid
would activate once for a few seconds, moving the locking bar while a
drawer was pulled out. When the solinoid de-activated , the rest of
the drawers would still be locked. When the person was done with their
filing, just pushing the opened drawer back in would mechanically
momentarily move the locking bar and then that drawer would be locked
again.

If this were being designed for a marketable product, I would put the
mechanism on the inside rear or side of the the cabinet with just a
card reader on the top of the cabinet.

I don't think it's as complicated as you might see it. I actually
think that the expense of doing this part would be less than the card
access system.

I don't have any locking cabinets but I've "fixed" them for other
people and they're not all the complicated nor are they actually very
secure. If it's actually "security" that you're looking for ..... this
is not going to provide it. If it's simply "control" and keeping track
of who uses the file cabinets and when, then this would do it, using
the proper access control system.

The more I think about it .... I'm thinking I should go out and buy a
locking cabinet, make this thing work and become a millionaire. .... I
can see it all now ..... JIM's, ACCESS CONTROL CABINETS & ASSO.. LLC.

It'll be traded on Wall Street as JACASSOL.! adding to a long line of
people on Wall Street with similar monikers.