Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices

[JoeRaisin <joeraisin2001@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 7/15/2011 8:25 PM, mleuck wrote:
> On Jul 14, 10:07 pm, Jim<alarmi...@xxxxxxx>  wrote:
>> On Jul 14, 8:35 pm, mleuck<m.le...@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>
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>>> On Jul 13, 9:05 pm, Jim<alarmi...@xxxxxxx>  wrote:
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>>>> On Jul 11, 9:52 pm, mleuck<m.le...@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Jul 6, 10:14 pm, Jim<alarmi...@xxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>
>>>>>> I have a problem with some of the backup wireless devices that are
>>>>>> being promoted and being  used today that don't promote or provide for
>>>>>> redundancy reporting.
>>
>>>>>> In the past, when setting up back up radio devices, the back up device
>>>>>> reported at the same time as the land line dialer. Now days, I find
>>>>>> that even though the devices are now capable of sending CID .... they
>>>>>> never send an alarm signal unless the dialer doesn't detect a dial
>>>>>> tone. And anyone I talk to about this just doesn't think that it
>>>>>> matters.
>>
>>>>>> Any one have thoughts on this?
>>
>>>>> It depends on how you set up the panel, you can have redundant or
>>>>> backup reporting with Honeywell panels and AlarmNet cell/IP devices,
>>>>> with TelGuard and Uplink you are limited to either cell primary or
>>>>> backup.
>>
>>>>> What cell units are you specifically talking about?
>>
>>>> The device that comes to mind is the DSC units. But there are others
>>>> that do the same thing.
>>
>>>> It's redundant but you can't get CID, only single digit reporting and
>>>> if I remember right, you have to have individual triggers for each
>>>> type of signal sent and I think there's a maximum of 3. ( Since my
>>>> first bad experience I haven't tried it since, so they may be
>>>> different now)
>>
>>> I don't know where you get your info but they all can do CID
>>
>>> Telular does dialer capture, supports and sends 4x2, CID, SIA, and
>>> Radionics Modem as backup or primary
>>> Uplink does dialer capture, supports 4x2, CID and SIA and Radionics
>>> Modem backup or primary
>>> DSC does dialer capture or keybus connection, supports CID primary
>>> (might be backup too, I forgot)
>>> AlarmNet does dialer capture or keybus connection, supports CID backup
>>> or primary
>>
>>> You may be thinking of the old stuff?-
>>
>> Maybe I am.
>>
>> But .... you're saying that these devices will send these signals if
>> used as primary or back up . And I'm saying that, assuming the
>> telephone line is primary and the radio is back up ..... I want both
>> to transmit every time there's a signal sent to central.
>
> Fine, you can
>
>> If you do use
>> the radio for back up with redundant reporting, you can't get them to
>> transmitt CID simultaneously, so your only choice is to use bell
>> output or relay trip to trigger the radio, resulting in only a single
>> CID code, a single digit or perhaps a single 4/2 output on the backup,
>> for any given alarm signal..
>
> With Honeywell you could get both CID, DSC you could have both CID or
> the cell sending CID and the panel sending SIA, with GE and Alarm.com
> you can get both as well.
>
>> Here .... let me give you a fer-instance of what happened. With the
>> "new lower standard" for the use of backup, (which only requires the
>> backup to work if the land line doesn't) The other day I got a call
>> from my customer that her alarm went off in the middle of the night.
>> She told me the bedroom windows showed open. I went to the home to do
>> a service call, and just to make sure, I called central to verify
>> which zone is was. They said they couldn't tell me because it only
>> came in on the backup radio
>
> Sounds like you've got the panel doing a siren trigger with the backup
> radio so they only get a burg signal, that's the old way of doing
> things
>
>   I asked them to look at the previous
>> alarm signal. They said that also only came in on the back up radio. I
>> asked why I wasn't notified that the land line wasn't working. They
>> said that usually no one wants to know, besides they don't have it in
>> their program.
>
> Sounds like you need another central station
>
>> I sent signals from the panel and it got through to
>> central on the landline so I don't know what the problem was. There
>> was no comm fail or tel line fault in the panel memory.
>> As far as the problem goes, I don't know what caused it at this
>> point .......I'm still working on it.  However.....
>
>
>> Now .... as I'm typing this, I'm wondering if it's just the centrals
>> lack of notification policy or are the monitoring programs not set up
>> to provide this information.  So .... I'll ask you ..... do you have
>> installers who send redundant signals to your central?
>
> Yup
>
>> If so,  do you
>> notify your alarm companys if only one technology reports an alarm
>> signal?
>
> If they request it yes
>
>>   How do you know if the "radio" signal you're getting is
>> primary or backup? Is there a way in the central station program to
>> know this information and take action on it?
>
> You'd know by the incoming phone number, no offense but you might want
> to look at what options are out there these days, what you are
> complaining about was true 10 years ago but not anymore.

We're doing a lot of subcontracts from ADT and that's one area I liked
my old company better - their CS utilized caller ID and the CS operators
could tell you which number you are reporting from.

The ADT monitoring stations either don't use caller ID or the operators
can't see it. (or they are lying to me when I ask)  When doing
programming through "Special Projects" (normal working hours only -
PITA) I keep having to drag out the butt-set and call my cell when the
number in the system is wrong.  Been doing a lot of work for a national
Dept store chain and so far (3 to this point) the panel number in the
system has been wrong every time.  It would be nice if the programmer
could check history and see what number the timer tests are coming in
on.  That and they HAVE to do something about the hold times - record
for me so far... 96 minutes.