Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices

[JoeRaisin <joeraisin2001@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 7/14/2011 11:07 PM, Jim wrote:
> On Jul 14, 8:35 pm, mleuck<m.le...@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 9:05 pm, Jim<alarmi...@xxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 11, 9:52 pm, mleuck<m.le...@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>
>>>> On Jul 6, 10:14 pm, Jim<alarmi...@xxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have a problem with some of the backup wireless devices that are
>>>>> being promoted and being  used today that don't promote or provide for
>>>>> redundancy reporting.
>>
>>>>> In the past, when setting up back up radio devices, the back up device
>>>>> reported at the same time as the land line dialer. Now days, I find
>>>>> that even though the devices are now capable of sending CID .... they
>>>>> never send an alarm signal unless the dialer doesn't detect a dial
>>>>> tone. And anyone I talk to about this just doesn't think that it
>>>>> matters.
>>
>>>>> Any one have thoughts on this?
>>
>>>> It depends on how you set up the panel, you can have redundant or
>>>> backup reporting with Honeywell panels and AlarmNet cell/IP devices,
>>>> with TelGuard and Uplink you are limited to either cell primary or
>>>> backup.
>>
>>>> What cell units are you specifically talking about?
>>
>>> The device that comes to mind is the DSC units. But there are others
>>> that do the same thing.
>>
>>> It's redundant but you can't get CID, only single digit reporting and
>>> if I remember right, you have to have individual triggers for each
>>> type of signal sent and I think there's a maximum of 3. ( Since my
>>> first bad experience I haven't tried it since, so they may be
>>> different now)
>>
>> I don't know where you get your info but they all can do CID
>>
>> Telular does dialer capture, supports and sends 4x2, CID, SIA, and
>> Radionics Modem as backup or primary
>> Uplink does dialer capture, supports 4x2, CID and SIA and Radionics
>> Modem backup or primary
>> DSC does dialer capture or keybus connection, supports CID primary
>> (might be backup too, I forgot)
>> AlarmNet does dialer capture or keybus connection, supports CID backup
>> or primary
>>
>> You may be thinking of the old stuff?-
>
> Maybe I am.
>
> But .... you're saying that these devices will send these signals if
> used as primary or back up . And I'm saying that, assuming the
> telephone line is primary and the radio is back up ..... I want both
> to transmit every time there's a signal sent to central. If you do use
> the radio for back up with redundant reporting, you can't get them to
> transmitt CID simultaneously, so your only choice is to use bell
> output or relay trip to trigger the radio, resulting in only a single
> CID code, a single digit or perhaps a single 4/2 output on the backup,
> for any given alarm signal..
>
> Here .... let me give you a fer-instance of what happened. With the
> "new lower standard" for the use of backup, (which only requires the
> backup to work if the land line doesn't) The other day I got a call
> from my customer that her alarm went off in the middle of the night.
> She told me the bedroom windows showed open. I went to the home to do
> a service call, and just to make sure, I called central to verify
> which zone is was. They said they couldn't tell me because it only
> came in on the backup radio. I asked them to look at the previous
> alarm signal. They said that also only came in on the back up radio. I
> asked why I wasn't notified that the land line wasn't working. They
> said that usually no one wants to know, besides they don't have it in
> their program. I sent signals from the panel and it got through to
> central on the landline so I don't know what the problem was. There
> was no comm fail or tel line fault in the panel memory.
> As far as the problem goes, I don't know what caused it at this
> point .......I'm still working on it.  However.....
>
>
> Now .... as I'm typing this, I'm wondering if it's just the centrals
> lack of notification policy or are the monitoring programs not set up
> to provide this information.  So .... I'll ask you ..... do you have
> installers who send redundant signals to your central? If so,  do you
> notify your alarm companys if only one technology reports an alarm
> signal?  How do you know if the "radio" signal you're getting is
> primary or backup? Is there a way in the central station program to
> know this information and take action on it? That is .... even if the
> reporting is Not redundant and only the radio reports, what do you do?

When I was doing scheduled inspections and tests of systems a thorough
test of all communications paths was always part of it.

First thing (Okay, second - if you count eyeballing for anything out of
the ordinary) I would do is disconnect the primary communicator and
commencing with all my panel checks.  Before leaving the panel I would
call and ensure all the troubles I created had gone through.  I would
then note the phone number (if the secondary was a land line), reconnect
the primary communicator and test out everything else.

The policy at that company was for one means of transmission - IOW, back
was back up only and if you did program a panel to send both you would
get a nasty-gram.  That was to lessen the number of signals coming into
CS - the same reason they had us turn off AC reporting - a move that
irritated me, but what do I know?  I carry tools for a living.