Re: Garage Door Opener keypad recommendations

[tourman <robercampbell@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Nov 20, 2:09=A0pm, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 10:56=A0am, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 12:24=A0pm, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 17, 7:03=A0pm, JoeRaisin <joeraisin2...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > On 11/17/2010 5:47 PM, Jim wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 17, 8:06 am, tourman<robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> =A0wrote:
> > > > >> On Nov 17, 6:21 am, JoeRaisin<joeraisin2...@xxxxxxxxx> =A0wrote:
>
> > > > >>> On 11/16/2010 7:57 PM, Christopher Glaeser wrote:
>
> > > > >>>>> One of my trades is (was) overhead door installation.
>
> > > > >>>> Fair enough. I called the company that installed the garage do=
ors in our
> > > > >>>> neighborhood. They are among the major garage door compainies =
in
> > > > >>>> northern california. I told him about my experience with a bro=
ken
> > > > >>>> spring, and asked him if the motor should be able to open the =
door with
> > > > >>>> a broken spring. He said no way. He went on to explain that so=
me
> > > > >>>> contractors use 1/3 HP for the heavy doublewides because the s=
pring does
> > > > >>>> all the heavy lifting, but they don't recommend the smaller mo=
tors for
> > > > >>>> the heavy doors. However, he said that even the 3/4 HP motors =
can't open
> > > > >>>> a heavy doublewide with a broken spring.
>
> > > > >>>>> Now in addition to a power failure, a battery failure, and a =
stormy
> > > > >>>>> night when
> > > > >>>>> you come home.... You're going to throw in a broken spring at=
 that exact
> > > > >>>>> moment.? Talk about entropy. Hell, if all that goes wrong the=
n that's
> > > > >>>>> some
> > > > >>>>> kind of mojo warning you not to go in.
>
> > > > >>>> I'm not sure you understand the scenario I'm describing. I'm t=
alking
> > > > >>>> about a single point of failure. I know many people (myself in=
cluded)
> > > > >>>> who do not carry any house keys. The only way for them to gain=
 entry to
> > > > >>>> their house (without a break in), is through the garage door. =
If the
> > > > >>>> garage spring breaks while they are outside the house, and the=
y have a
> > > > >>>> heavy garage door, then gaining entry to the house may present=
 a challenge.
>
> > > > >>>> Best,
> > > > >>>> Christopher
>
> > > > >>> Are you saying that you leave the door from the garage to the h=
ouse
> > > > >>> unlocked?
>
> > > > >> RHC: Good question ! This is a very poor idea and an ongoing sou=
rce of
> > > > >> false alarms. If the door doesn't close properly and isn't locke=
d,
> > > > >> high winds outside can cause enough of a vacuum inside the garag=
e to
> > > > >> pull or push the door open just enough to trigger the zone (espe=
cially
> > > > >> with magnetic contacts versus roller balls behind the door) . Th=
is is
> > > > >> a common cause of false alarms that I routinely warn my clients =
about.-
>
> > > > > Ummmm what kind of "roller ball" would you use on an overhead doo=
r?
>
> > > > > I can see a 2" gap magnetic switch but a roller ball? =A0Well, ma=
ybe if
> > > > > it was about =A06 inches in diameter to give you the two inches o=
f play.
> > > > > I think the door would have a hard time trying to push in a ball =
that
> > > > > size and the kids would constanly be leaning their bicycles again=
st
> > > > > it. :-)
>
> > > > We were talking about the garage to house door.
>
> > > > Though a six inch roller ball would be a sight to behold...-
>
> > > Oh.
>
> > > However. Unless I don't have any other choice I don't use roller ball
> > > switches on doors. I think it's been pretty well documented that all
> > > it takes is a grain of sand or a paint chip to jam a roller ball
> > > switch in the closed position.
>
> > RHC: I guess we differ somewhat on that point. I have used thousands
> > of roller balls on doors and had less than half a dozen give me any
> > type of trouble. And then, it can be as you say...dirt jamming the
> > switch, but more often it's some idiot who's painted over the thing,
> > disabling it. I've also used thousands of buried magnetic switches
> > too, and these give me far more trouble, since they don't have the gap
> > "forgiveness" inherent in a roller ball contact. They seem to give
> > trouble when 1- the customer forgets to lock the door and the wind
> > blows it open enough to trigger the alarm, or 2- when some idiot
> > originally installed it at a downward angle, thereby limiting the gap
> > length before it triggers.
>
> > I guess they both have inherent problems but a quality roller ball is
> > IMO no more trouble than a magnetic switch. And as always, it usually
> > comes down to improper application or installation.-
>
> What's wrong with that is that a roller ball will fail and you don't
> know it. The mag switch fails open.
>
> I'd agree with you on the inherent problems if you're using standard
> magnet recessed contacts. But now ..... with the newer Rare Earth
> magnets, there's no problem at all with the issues you cited. You just
> have to be careful the Rare Earth magnets don't pull the fillings out
> of your teeth.

RHC: Yeah, any roller ball contacts that failed were usually
determined by a trouble call where the client opened the door and a
motion triggered the alarm. Customers don't check their alarm systems
whatsoever, and the don't notice things until they have an open zone
or one that triggers an alarm.

Rare earth magnets have definately improved things overall. Now you do
have a bit more than just opening the door a crack before the zone
opens. I still prefer the tolerance of a roller ball though, and as
long as they remain as trouble free as I have found them to date, I'll
likely stick with them when the frame of the door allows it. One minor
side benefit - when a client changes only the door and not the frame,
it's one less service call. Nor do they cause another problem I've
seen with magnetic contacts where the magnet ends up falling out of
the door on occasion.

Bottom line, I stock all sorts, colours and lengths of either magnetic
and roller ball. Sometimes you get out there, and you just don't know
what you'll find....

When I first started installing, I worked for a company here that has
long since disappeared, and I have a bushel basket full of assorted
contacts of all different types, colours and connecting ends that I
can draw on when I find a weird situation that I have to deal with.