Re: Recomendation for reliable inexpensive monitoring service.

["Robert L Bass" <no-sales-spam@bassburglaralarms>]

> Once again into the breach...

That can be adjusted with forceps.

> The post I was replying to mentioned
> "meter".  I guess you missed that.

Oh, yeah.  Those meters are real confusing.  :^)  If you think so, perhaps you need a different line of work.

> Yeah,  I admit those Phillips head screws
> you guys down south love so much
> are a challenge.

That's what you get for missing the class in Olsonomics 101.  Next time register early for a seat up front.  He'll teach you how to
twist.

> I don't see any idiots here, let alone
> ones that insult the OP.

You see people in Usenet?

>> You're lying again.
>
> I have you for a role model.

More like a puppet master.

>>  I never said that
>
> That's the way I read it though...

Only because you chose to read it wrong.

> I guess both of us have a problem reading.

Nah.  Both of us can read.  You have a problem with honesty.

> Frank actually called me to say so.

You call yourself?  Cracker has medication for that.

> Do you frequently...

Sometimes.

> break up people's posts...

Once in a while.

> to make some small points?

That, and large points as well.

> If you take a look at what I
> actually wrote...

I did.

> you'll notice I wasn't refering to
> just any fire alarm system...

I brought the subject up.  You mentioned an
advanced system which most so-called
"professionals" never even see to try to
counter what I said.  That was disingenuous
of you (not that I expected anything better).

> but an Edwards 8500...

I did a project for Edwards several years
ago.  Nice outfit.

> But do go on...

You expected I'd stop if you didn't give
permission?  :^)

> Your stories of DIY are positively fascinating.

Glad you enjoy them.

> I could read them all day long.

It takes you that long?

>>> Something like an Edwards 8500 with full
>>> evac, about 102 zones and 21 dual zone
>>> amplifiers...
>>
>> Most fire alarms are smaller jobs than that.
>> However, I have sold a fair number of large,
>> addressable systems to DIYers.  Once you
>> read the manual it's not all that complicated.
>
> Heh...  right...  You've obviously never
> _seen_ and 8500 let alone worked on
> one.

I haven't needed one.  I also haven't needed
to pressurize a stairwell.  I've worked on some
fairly large, addressable systems though.
Nevertheless, if a DIYer asks me about an
Edwards 8500 I'll be sure to refer them to some
local dealer.

>> I also sell EVAX systems.
>
> Is that what they call them in the US?
> Up here they're "EVAC's".  That's
> short for "Evacuation".

Evax is a brand.

>> Not that many
>> DIYers opt to install them but a few have.
>
> Sure they have.
>
>> Some of my DIY clients also install their
>> own access control systems.
>
> Of course they do.
>
>>> Oh...  let's throw in a couple of ESAC's
>>> as well as elevator homing, and
>>> pressurization turbines for the stairwells.
>>
>> The typical alarm dealer would have no
>> idea how to do that either.
>
> Bingo!  It's taken five separations (and
> an equal number of your rambling
> dissertations on DIY expertise) to finally
> get you to admit the DIY would be
> in way over his head in this instance.

I only said that most installers wouldn't
know about that.  That has no bearing
on the fact that many DIYers do install
their own commercial fire alarms.  We
move several of them per website (there's
more than one) per week.

> Having had to wait "weeks" for certain
> fire alarm parts (Edwards 6500 for
> instance)...

If you are who I think you are, that's all
bullfrank anyway.  However, you might
notice I don't sell the 6500 online.  As
a policy, I prefer to sell things that can
be ordered through distribution. I do
sell a few manufacturer direct items but
only when there's no alternative.  You
wouldn't find any Radionics or DMP on
my site even if they wanted me to sell
it to DIYers (they don't).  You will not
find Mircom's limited distribution panels
though I do sell their open lines all the
time.

> A liar calling someone else a liar isn't
> worth the pixels it's printed on, by the
> way.

I guess that means you're about to stop.

>>>> We can usually get even a UPS
>>>> ground shipment to the client
>>>> in one to three days.
>>>
>>> And a service technician can be
>>> dispatched in 1 to 3 hours (and usually is).
>>
>> Some firms dispatch right away. Some don't.
>
> Yeah...  It takes 3 hours at the most.

It varies with the dealer.

>> The problem, once again, is that the end
>> user has no way ogf knowing whether the
>> local dealer is fast, efficient and honest or you.
>
> Or the online vendor is "fast, efficient, and
> honest or you".

If he gets stuck with you he's screwed for three
to five years.  If he decides he doesn't like my
service he can click a link and choose a
competitor in seconds.

>>>> If they order before 2:pm on a weekday
>>>> and they want it shipped overnight they
>>>> can have the component the next morning.
>>>
>>> About 24 hours after the tech has
>>> been there and fixed the problem.
>>
>> Not if he needs a part that's not on the truck.
>
> That just needs a quick trip to the local
> supplier.  Add an extra two hours...

Each way, plus an extra week while the
supplier orders it in from the factory.  Meanwhile,
my DIY client already has his system up and
running.

>>>> This isn't unusual either.  Most online
>>>> dealers can easily run circles around
>>>> the average local, independent dealer.
>>>
>>> That would be difficult for _you_ to prove.
>>> How many of your customers have tried
>>> contacting you and wound up filing
>>> complaints here...
>>
>> Filing complaints in Usenet?  Are you
>> really that stupid?
>
> Never-the-less, I've seen them post complaints here.

You've seen MM and a few other low grade moron
competitors post using three dozen aliases which
they created, just as Olson did when he created you.

>>> ... and at the BBB?
>>
>> Those are mostly fakes from Olson and
>> Cracker.
>
> And that's an outright lie, Bass.  You damn
> well know the procedures involved in filing
> a complaint with the BBB...

Yep.  I filed one against a pool company once.
It took a few minutes online.

> and what they require from both
> the complainant...

An online form.  Nothing more.

> and [the vendor]...

Nothing.  Responding is the vendor's
option.  You can respond online, by fax,
by mail or not at all.

> In fact, you've had dozens of complaints
> to deal with over the years...

When the Waco idiot said he'd sent
$9,000 in an envelop and they refused to
believe it was a hoax I stopped bothering
with them.  They're a waste of time.  They
ignore complaints about members and
do nothing to help non-members.

> The count keeps changing upward even
> though some of the older ones have aged
> off the system.

You guys keep filing more bogus ones.
I don't even reply.  Feel free to continue.
No one cares.

>> I've had maybe five legitimate
>> complaints where I screwed something
>> up in all the years I've run an online store.
>
> That's not what the report says,
> and you know it.

I saw it once.  It means nothing since all
the complaints filed in the past two and
a half years were bullshit from you and
your pals.

>> Then again, we process 30-40 sales a
>> day, 7 days a week.  You try handling that
>> many jobs without an occasional jiminex
>> -up.  Face it.  Olson happens.  :^)
>
> Yeah...  and I suppose online stores with
> the BBB online seal that do four times the
> business you do field the same number
> of complaints...  Sure...

Vendors who pay to join the BBB get totally
different treatment.  I doubt there are many
online alarm vendors doing 4 times my
business though.  Smarthome and a few
others are much bigger than us but the vast
majority of online alarm dealers don't touch
my sales.

>> However, several others have posted
>> that they found out from their distributor
>> that we're a major account.
>
> Really?  When was that?

Do your own homework.

>> It's no big deal really.  I offer better
>> prices than most so I sell more
>> hardware.  That means I order more,
>> which gets me better costs.  And so
>> it goes.
>
> Would you like cheese on your fish?

A little bit of grated mozzarela is good if
you mix it in with the Italian style bread
crumbs.  The real trick is to squeeze a
bit of lime juice on top just before you
pop it into the oven.

>> So do the bad ones.
>
> I don't see many "bad" ones.

Uh-huh.  No bad alarm installers.  Right.  :^)

>>> This makes servicing their systems
>>> very much easier...
>>
>> Warranty replacement is still the same.
>> Either you swap it out with an advance
>> replacement (just as we do) if it's within
>> 30 days or you send it into the factory.
>
> So how much does this "advance
> replacement" cost?  In terms of actual
> charges to your customer (shipping, etc.).

Nothing.  We ship repairs and replacements
back to the client at no charge.  If the product
is bad out of the box we call tag the defective
part, too.  Most of the time the distributors do
that for us anyway.  If not, we pick up the tab.
Fortunately, it doesn't happen all that often.

>> If you do that you wait the same time
>> as we do for a replacement.  If you
>> were smart you'd keep a few refurbished
>> units around for warranty replacement.
>
> I can't sell "refurbished" parts on a fire
> alarm system.  That would be illegal...

Bullfrank!  Any time you send in a part for
repairs you get back a refurbished part.
It might not even be the same piece you
shipped in either.

> ULC doesn't allow board level repairs
> except for the actual manufacturer.

Moron!  Who did you think I was referring
to as doing the repairs?

> Oh, come off it.  On a burg system?
> Spare boards are cheap.

So you never had a single time when a
burg part failed and there wasn't a spare
on the truck?  Please!

Oh, wait.  I almost forgot.  You're just an
Olson sock puppet.  You stock everything
from spare puppets to levitating ladders
and 737 fuselages on your imaginary
trucks... all the while working as a counter
clerk at a small distributor and never once
installing a single *anything*.  Pffft!

> Nope.  They're downloaded from the office.

Behind the counter?

>>> So let me get this straight.  I order a part...
>>
>> Nope.  We would never accept your credit
>> card.
>
> Heh...  right...  You're such an "eager beaver"
> you'ld jump your pool to take an order (from
> anyone)...

Wrong again.  I wouldn't accept an order from
you if you brought cash to my doorstep.

> If it happened to be from someone in this
> group, you'd go "ga-ga" with glee.

Why would a dealer order from another dealer
when he could get the part from the same
distributor I do for only 10-15% more than I pay?

>> That's old hat, Bug.  We now have three
>> people on the phones and our eMail works
>> well.
>
> Bully for you.

It's better than it used to be when I did
everything myself.  For a while I could
hardly keep up.  When I got sick last
year I made "temporary" arrangements
to cover me.  Those have since changed
from temporary to permanent.  Now I'm
looking for a fourth person to help with
technical sales, preferably someone
well versed in CCTV and access control.

>>> It must then be examined, and at the
>>> depot's discretion a replacement part is
>>> returned...
>>
>> If it's within 30 days the replacement arrives
>> at the client's address before we even see
>> the bad part.
>
> And after 30 days??  What??  The part
> disappears into the "ether" of some
> drop shippers warehouse where it will be
> dealt with "sometime"...

If that is how you handle things I feel sorry
for your victims.

>>> If that "part" happens to be the common
>>> control board for say... a FireLite fire alarm
>>> panel, then I would have to pay for a 24
>>> hour security fire watch for how many days
>>> before I got a replacement board?
>>
>> I don't do business with you so that's your
>> problem.  Serves you right for screwing up the
>> installation in the first place.  Next time
>> try doing the job right.
>
> Frank warned me about you...

While he was creating the account
to pretend you exist?

>>> some depots won't accept parts returned
>>> from an end-user or that were installed by
>>> an end-user.
>>
>> Dream on, Boug.
>
> Is that a cross between "Doug" and "Bug"?

Yep.  You're not the only one in the thread.

>> BTW, since all but a small portion of
>> DIYers don't even want monitoring,
>> the whole question is moot.
>
> So in the six years your business has been
> operating the total number of monitored
> accounts you sold was...  "6"?

I'm not sure where you learned math but
obviously you weren't the brightest kid in
class.  It's bad enough you're dishonest
but it's sad you're also dumb as a box
of rocks.

My online venture began almost nine years ago
while I was still running an alarm company in CT.
I kept both going until I finally sold the alarm
company.

When I offered monitoring service to DIYers I
sold only a few monitoring contracts per week.
It wasn't worth the hassle.  Now I refer about
the same number to 911 Alarm or Next Alarm.
Let them do it.  I'm busy selling systems.

> Check "scores".  You write a lot of your
> own music don't you?...

Nope, but I'm learning to play the keyboard.

> Does it have a samba beat, or is it more
> "Bass-anova"?

Nah.  I prefer forro and pagode.  The
latter is kind of like samba with a little extra
spice thrown in.  Forro is like country only
the words are in Portuguese.  The funny
part is how it got its name.  You can do a
little Googling to find that out if you like.

>> Sadly, too many paid "professional"
>> installers don't do it right.
>
> Not _one_ in my neck of the woods.

Oh, bullfrank!

>> With very few exceptions, if the
>> owner of a property wants to DIY
>> his fire alarm the law permits him
>> to do so.
>
> Har-dee-har!...   That's about all you
> know, isn't it?  You can't "DIY" a
> fire alarm system in BC, Bass.

That's Canada again.  Try to read
more carefully. I already told you
several times I don't give a rat's olson
what Canada allows.  I sell in the USA.

> I'll bet you can't do so in a lot of
> jurisdictions.  But, I do like your music.

You never heard me play.

>> There's an interesting special case on
>> this subject, BTW.  In many states
>> someone building a single family home
>> on spec can do his own work without
>> a license.  Since that's not universal I
>> advise clients to check first or let an
>> electrician pull the cables, permits, etc.
>
> You dispense a lot of "advice", don't you??

Yep.

> Do you also design systems?

Do you?

> And your point is??

It's getting harder to spot now that my hair
is growing back.

>>  That "some" so far amounts
>> to one town in CA and they're being sued by
>> a bunch of alarm associations who hate
>> losing the recurring revenue.  It will be
>> interesting to see how that turns out.
>
> No, actually.  It means that the the alarm
> association and the companies
> _won_, Bass.  "With Prejudice".

Oh, OK.  So the rule was tossed?  That
would mean they can't stop out of state
monitoring firms from servicing local
accounts.  I guess that, in turn, means
you're a liar (but we already knew that)
as well as a sock puppet.

> My brain really hurts.

No problem.  Press *69 next time Cracker
calls.  Tell him your the pharmacist and
his meds have been recalled.  Give him
your return address.  He'll ship you tons of
psychotropic prescription stuff for free.