Re: Recomendation for reliable inexpensive monitoring service.

["FIRETEK" <firetech(change-the-ch-to-k)@telus.net>]

In line.


"Robert L Bass" <robertbass1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:D8OdnXUlnqG8qSnYnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Time for a reality check, Olson.

Wrong "Frank".

> As for tools, most of the time all you need is a simple meter, a manual
and a screwdriver.

Sure.  And the ability to use them properly.

>  I've
> walked scores of people through servicing their opwn alarms.

The one's that post here looking for you when you don't answer the phone?

>  It isn't rocket science.  Any primate can install or service an alarm
> system.

Sure.  In about "two hours" worth of "personal telephone education", right?


> Many times end users have posted right here in this newsgroup how they've
waited weeks > for their alarm company to service the alarm

And ain't it amazing how "quick" you are on the "draw" to "volunteer" your
"service".  The net abounds with "sock puppets".  Heck, I'm one myself (or
so you say).


> system.  Those who were able to get service usually still have to wait
anywhere
> from a day to more than a week.  Then there's the cost.  Some alarm
dealers
> charge a reasonable fee for their techs' time.  Others gouge the customer
at every
> opportunity.

So because "others gouge the customer at every opportunity", all alarm
dealers are bad.  Interesting "logic".  Did you use the same "logic" when
you told the judge it was only a "fake" gun?  "Look, your honour.  Some guns
are real.  Others are fake and should just be ignored."


>
> By opting to DIY the client can save most of the cost.  With a little
coaching,
> some common sense and a few simple tools he can also
> get the job done before the alarm company technician ever arrives.

I'd like to see a DIY try and troubleshoot a fire alarm system.  Something
like an Edwards 8500 with full evac, about 102 zones and 21 dual zone
amplifiers.  Oh...  let's throw in a couple of ESAC's as well as elevator
homing, and pressurization turbines for the stairwells.


> What cloud are you living on?  Most alarm parts are shipped from stock.

I have no doubt that they are.  But surely you don't "stock" anything.


> We can usually get even a UPS ground shipment to the client
> in one to three days.

And a service technician can be dispatched in 1 to 3 hours (and usually is).


>  If they order before 2:pm on a weekday and they
> want is shipped overnight they can have the component the
> next morning.

About 24 hours after the tech has been there and fixed the problem.


>  This isn't unusual either.  Most online dealers can easily run
> circles around the average local, independent dealer.

That would be difficult for _you_ to prove.  How many of your customers have
tried contacting you and wound up filing complaints here and at the BBB?


> Part of the reason for that is
> companies like mine have far greater purchasing power than most locals.

Not knowing your "operation" I won't comment on your "purchasing power".  I
do see you "power huffing and puffing" a lot though.


> If it requires warranty service the client will have to wait the exact
same time no matter who does the job.

Wrong.  Most good alarm dealers settle on a single product line.  This makes
servicing their systems very much easier.  It also makes stocking
replacement parts _in the service vehicle_ a "snap".  If it's a "board
problem", they simply swap it out and download the sucker.  Heck, even the
user codes are fully restored.

> Some manufacturers are
> quick to turn things around.  Others are not.  However, there's no
difference in their responsiveness between one dealer and the
> next.

Frank said your eyes are "brown".  :)


>
> Also, some distributors maintain a stock of refurbished parts for warranty
work.  When a panel comes in it is sent to the
> manufacturer for repair and a replacement is shipped immediately.  When
the other unit comes back it goes on the shelf for the next
> warranty call.  The advantage here is that the replacement part can often
be shipped immediately as an advance replacement.  Many
> distributors do that for anything that is past the 30-day over-the-counter
replacement policy.

So let me get this straight.  I order a part from AssHome or AssBurglar and
it's defective.  Your warranty page states that the part must be returned
(at my cost) to the "depot" that shipped it (not to you) _after_ I contact
you to get an "RMA" number (the latter process might take days or weeks
according to what I've seen posted about your "communication problems").  It
must then be examined, and at the depot's discretion a replacement part is
returned.  If that "part" happens to be the common control board for say...
a FireLite fire alarm panel, then I would have to pay for a 24 hour security
fire watch for how many days before I got a replacement board?  Let's say it
was my burg panel's common control.  I pay to have the board sent back
"overnight".  It takes about a day for some schmuck in the warehouse to find
the thing and bring it up to someone that will say:  "Yep, it's defective,
send him a new one".  Then it'll take another day (or 2) to get back to me.
That's 3 or 4 days that I won't have an alarm system (not including the day
or 2 it took to squeeze the RMA number out of you).  I also understand that
some depots won't accept parts returned from an end-user or that were
installed by an end-user.  So much for DIY.


>
> If the job is DIY the part ships directly to the customer the same day the
problem is discovered.

Not according to your "warranty" page.


>  If the alarm company is in the
> middle of this the client has to wait for a tech to come out, diagnose the
trouble and remove the component.  Then he has to wait
> for the alarm company to order the replacement part.  Then he waits for
them to get it from the distributor.  Then he waits for the
> alarm company to send a technician back to reinstall the replacement part.
Meanwhile the DIYer has had his system working for
> anywhere from several days to several weeks while the dealer's customer is
still waiting.

I figure Frank's right.  Your eyes are "brown".  And it's leaking out your
ears too.  Most alarm dealers will carry spare boards/parts in their trucks.
Replacement is immediate.  So is the programming.


> Roll the dice and hope the tech they send actually is familiar with the
system.

Use the company that installed it and they not only will be familiar with
the system, they'll carry all the spare parts they need to fix it.


> Or a few hundred more dollars.

Plus shipping.  To and from.


> That's absurd.  Maybe one AHJ in 10,000 even gives a rat's olson which
monitoring company is involved.

It would behoove the customer to check first don't you think?  You're always
so good with dispensing advice.  Why are you ignoring this simple basic
"first step"?


>  In 30 years in the trade I
> have yet to see one single AHJ ask which central station was monitoring a
system.

How many jurisdictions have you worked in?


>  They are concerned with how the system is wired
> and (if there's fire alarm involved) whether the installation meets
minima.  They never care who is doing the monitoring and they
> especially don't care whether it's UL station five states away or another
UL station in the same town.

When it comes to my "neck of the woods" (fire alarms), they're also
concerned about whether it was "wired", "installed", and "serviced" by a
qualified contractor.


>
> Yeah, right.  Most AHJ's, police and fire departments refuse to recommend
anyone at all.  Doing so would be unethical (not that that
> would bother some folks here).

I never said they'd "recommend" any particular dealer.  I simply stated that
some may not accept out of state/province monitoring.


> That's yet another red herring.

And you do a lot of "trolling" and your last name is Bass.


>  Where there's an ordinance it is incumbent upon the alarm user to
register his alarm.

In Vancouver the "ordinance" goes a bit further.  It requires the name and
license number of the installing/servicing technician.  So much for "DIY".


>  There is
> also a growing trend toward issuing fines for an inordinate number of
false alarms.


In Vancouver, a false alarm requires the attendance of a licensed technician
to verify all components in the alarm system are functional and to
investigate any possible causes for the false alarm.  After the third false
alarm, the system is suspended from priority response until a qualified
alarm tech signs off on the installation.  This usually means installing
upgraded equipment and might entail additional wiring to "cross-zone".  A
client of mine had to go through this exercise a few weeks ago.  They're a
local property management firm with offices in a building we service the
fire alarm on.

> Alarm dealers know about that because the
> systems they install false 98% of the time, causing police, fire
departments and AHJ's in many cities to ask their councils to write
> ordinances allowing them to ignore the systems.

I just love watching you in action.  You should really sell tickets.  Where
the hell do you get these statistics/information from?  Oh wait, I forget.
You make them up.


>
> On a side note, one dealer who recently posted a silly advertisement in
this newsgroup claimed to represent the one comany that
> police respect the most.  The funny thing is that company has the worst
false alarm track record of any in the trade.  It's an
> outfit I nicknamed "Sonitrash."

And I've nicknamed your outfit "AssBurglar".  So what?


> Naah.  It doesn't make any difference at all.  Besides, alarm dealers and
alarm systems do nothing to prevent fires.  When they work
> properly (the systems; not the dealers) they detect fires.  But they don't
prevent anything.

Like I said earlier.  The OP should check with the AHJ.  It's also a good
idea to check with your insurance company.  They might require a certificate
for you to qualify for the alarm discount.


> I know of a number of small central stations but I've never seen one in a
garage.  I even ran a small, independent alarm company for
> many years.  We bought a house from a doctor whose office was part of the
same building as the living quarters.  I built a
> non-listed central station in the office, hired staff to man it and was
able to givwe good service to my clients for many years.
> Since it was a wood frame building there was no way we would ever have
been UL but our response times were excellent and we had a
> good reputation in our town and the surrounding area.

Not having knowledge of your particular operation I can't comment one way or
another.  I know you won't meet the qualifications for fire alarm monitoring
in the City of Vancouver with a non-listed central.  As to your "good
reputation", I've read otherwise.  Or was Tom just pulling our collective
legs?