Re: Recomendation for reliable inexpensive monitoring service.

["Robert L Bass" <robertbass1@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

>> No one, DIYer or paid installer *repairs*
>> alarm control panels.  They are either
>> sent in to the factory or replaced.  If any
>> other component fails it's a simple matter
>> to remove and replace it.  This isn't
>> rocket science.
>
> No, but finding out the source of the trouble
> often takes someone with experience and
> the right tools.

Time for a reality check, Olson.  As for tools, most of the time all you need is a simple meter, a manual and a screwdriver.  I've
walked scores of people through servicing their opwn alarms.  It isn't rocket science.  Any primate can install or service an alarm
system.

>> That is yet another reason to DIY.
>
> Sure.  He'll spend "hours" of his time
> findng the problem where it might
> take a trained technician 15 minutes...

Many times end users have posted right here in this newsgroup how they've waited weeks for their alarm company to service the alarm
system.  Those who were able to get service usually still have to wait anywhere from a day to more than a week.  Then there's the
cost.  Some alarm dealers charge a reasonable fee for their techs' time.  Others gouge the customer at every opportunity.

By opting to DIY the client can save most of the cost.  With a little coaching, some common sense and a few simple tools he can also
get the job done before the alarm company technician ever arrives.

> He'll then have to wait three weeks
> for some on line store to arrange to
> drop ship the part he thinks is faulty
> to his house...

What cloud are you living on?  Most alarm parts are shipped from stock.  We can usually get even a UPS ground shipment to the client
in one to three days.  If they order before 2:pm on a weekday and they want is shipped overnight they can have the component the
next morning.  This isn't unusual either.  Most online dealers can easily run circles around the average local, independent dealer.
Part of the reason for that is companies like mine have far greater purchasing power than most locals.

> And if that part happens to require
> warranty service...

If it requires warranty service the client will have to wait the exact same time no matter who does the job.  Some manufacturers are
quick to turn things around.  Others are not.  However, there's no difference in their responsiveness between one dealer and the
next.

Also, some distributors maintain a stock of refurbished parts for warranty work.  When a panel comes in it is sent to the
manufacturer for repair and a replacement is shipped immediately.  When the other unit comes back it goes on the shelf for the next
warranty call.  The advantage here is that the replacement part can often be shipped immediately as an advance replacement.  Many
distributors do that for anything that is past the 30-day over-the-counter replacement policy.

If the job is DIY the part ships directly to the customer the same day the problem is discovered.  If the alarm company is in the
middle of this the client has to wait for a tech to come out, diagnose the trouble and remove the component.  Then he has to wait
for the alarm company to order the replacement part.  Then he waits for them to get it from the distributor.  Then he waits for the
alarm company to send a technician back to reinstall the replacement part.  Meanwhile the DIYer has had his system working for
anywhere from several days to several weeks while the dealer's customer is still waiting.

> Find a local company that's familiar
> with your equipment to provide service.

Roll the dice and hope the tech they send actually is familiar with the system.

> You may spend a few more dollars...

Or a few hundred more dollars.

> (if it's not monitored), but at least
> you'll know the job's in capable hands.

Most of the time it probably will be but the customer has no way to be certain beforehand.  Once that tech is loose in the house it
may be too late.

>> Nonsense!  The central station receiver
>> gets signals by telephone.  In this day
>> and age it is ludicrous to pretend that
>> there's any difference between placing
>> a local or 800 number call.
>
> There's a huge difference if the station isn't
> acceptable to the local AHJ...

That's absurd.  Maybe one AHJ in 10,000 even gives a rat's olson which monitoring company is involved.  In 30 years in the trade I
have yet to see one single AHJ ask which central station was monitoring a system.  They are concerned with how the system is wired
and (if there's fire alarm involved) whether the installation meets minima.  They never care who is doing the monitoring and they
especially don't care whether it's UL station five states away or another UL station in the same town.

Note to new visitors:  At this point several of the "professional" installers will make up stories of AHJ's demanding that only a
local, independent dealer do the monitoring.

> Call the local police department,
> fire and ambulance services and
> find out what station is or is not
> acceptable...

Yeah, right.  Most AHJ's, police and fire departments refuse to recommend anyone at all.  Doing so would be unethical (not that that
would bother some folks here).

> If you are going to use an 800 service,
> make sure they know about local
> ordinances that could affect your
> service...

That's yet another red herring.  Where there's an ordinance it is incumbent upon the alarm user to register his alarm.  There is
also a growing trend toward issuing fines for an inordinate number of false alarms.  Alarm dealers know about that because the
systems they install false 98% of the time, causing police, fire departments and AHJ's in many cities to ask their councils to write
ordinances allowing them to ignore the systems.

On a side note, one dealer who recently posted a silly advertisement in this newsgroup claimed to represent the one comany that
police respect the most.  The funny thing is that company has the worst false alarm track record of any in the trade.  It's an
outfit I nicknamed "Sonitrash."

>> The local vs. remote monitoring argument
>> has been going on for decades. Local guys
>> with tiny businesses argue that local is
>> better.
>
> It often is.  Particularly in the fire prevention industry.

Naah.  It doesn't make any difference at all.  Besides, alarm dealers and alarm systems do nothing to prevent fires.  When they work
properly (the systems; not the dealers) they detect fires.  But they don't prevent anything.

>> Companies using large, professional
>> monitoring centers argue that their
>> way is better.  The reality is that there
>> is no difference at all.
>
> On the contrary, there are huge differences
> between a central that employs licensed
> and certified staff as opposed to some
> "mom and pop" that's run out of a garage
> somewhere.

I know of a number of small central stations but I've never seen one in a garage.  I even ran a small, independent alarm company for
many years.  We bought a house from a doctor whose office was part of the same building as the living quarters.  I built a
non-listed central station in the office, hired staff to man it and was able to givwe good service to my clients for many years.
Since it was a wood frame building there was no way we would ever have been UL but our response times were excellent and we had a
good reputation in our town and the surrounding area.

I've sen a few other small, independents that do a good job.  One guy in a nearby town was a friendly competitor who liked some of
the same hardware we used.  His operation wasn't as fast as ours but they did a good job.  When I sold my business they got the 3rd
party monitoring contract.

OTOH, I know of several other local dealers (Sonitrash was the worst) who do a miserable job -- miss many signals, fail to cancel
after a client gives them a valid password, delay reporting an hour or more, etc.

Unfortunately, the mix among large, 3rd party monitoring companies isn't very different.  Some do an excellent, professional job.
Others are totally incompetent.

>> There are good and bad local outfits
>> and there are good and bad remote
>> outfits.
>
> True.  But how do you differentiate?

Easy.  DIY the installation.  Select a monitoring service that doesn't require a long-term contract.  Try them out for a while.  If
they do a good job stay with them.  If not, cancel and go elsewhere.  Unfortunately, if the client opts for professional
installation that option is not open to him.  He will have to accept whatecer monitoring center the dealer selects.  Even if the
initial provider is good, if the dealer later decides to switch to an outfit that charges $1 less the customer has no choice but to
use them, regardless what kind of service they provide.

> And what kind of response would you
> get using a "remote outfit" as opposed
> to a "local" one?

If you mean response to an alarm, on average it will be the same.

>> There is one difference that the previous
>> poster failed to mention.  If the gentleman
>> signs with some local alarm dealer he's
>> stuck using whatever central station they
>> choose.
>
> That's a problem?

It is if the dealer chooses a poor quality provider to save himself a dollar or two per account per month.

>>  The contract even allows them to change
>> stations without the customer's consent if
>> they find one that will do it for a dollar less.
>
> There's a huge cost involved in changing
> stations...

If the dealer is ill prepared, that is true.

> Often it requires reprogramming the account
> codes.  Most responsible dealers won't change
> for "a dollar less"...

Smart independent dealers have their own 800 numbers for all their accounts.  Changing providers requires a two step process.  First
the dealer sends a copy of the account database to the new station.  Virtually every major c-s automation software packages provides
an account conversion process to merge data from every other major c-s system.  Next the dealer calls the telco and has them assign
the 800 numbers to circuits at the new station.

When we sold our company we prepared in advance.  On the appointed day the telco reassigned the numbers and the cutover was
accomplished in a few minutes.  Had I decided to use an out-of-state provider the procedure would have been identical since I owned
the phone numbers.

> Money isn't the only motivation, although
> you certainly make it appear so...

Oh yeah, right.  You're all in this business for the satisfaction of providing protection to helpless babies and... [excuse me while
I place an online order for a shovel].

> That's a tad "disengenuous", don't you think?

Funny how virtually every alarm monitoring contract in use today has a clause allowing the dealer to change providers without the
custimers' consent.

>> If he goes the DIY route he can decide
>> which station to use.  If he doesn't like
>> them, he can change at will.
>
> That's not true either.  Most UL Listed centrals
> won't allow a DIY to program his own alarm
> panel.  It's got something to do with liability...

Bullshit!  Most central stations don't accept DIY because they don't want dealers to think they're competing with them.  Those who
do accept DIY accounts almost never insist on locking the customer out of programming his own panel.  There's a good reason for
that.  Most DIYers would tell them to jump in the Arthur Kill (next to the rotting hull of the SS Jiminex).

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

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