Re: Electric Lock choice

["Jackcsg" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx>]

"J. Sloud" <jsloud@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:a1fqe1lg6m0v570pmqp31vgn2sealnln32@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:32:56 -0400, "Jackcsg" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> >> >"J. Sloud" <jsloud@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> a écrit dans le
message
> >de
> >> >news: fgrpe1luvhd1adm2h7oufdaf0gi5fpuoqh@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> On 29 Jul 2005 18:53:11 -0700, bhnjr@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >> Not so different.  Maglocks aren't suited for high security
> >> applications on exterior doors anywhere.
> >
> >I disagree with that statement. If you said electric strikes, I would
agree.
> >Strikes offer NO, NONE, ZIP NOTTA, form of Access Control, period.
>
> How do you figure?  I normally wouldn't post this but you've got some
> bad information:
> Maglocks can easily be defeated.  Pull the fire alarm and the doors
> open. Slip a piece of paper through the crack around the door and wave
> it in front of the REX motion and the doors open.  Cut power to a
> facility and  wait until the batteries drain, the doors open.  Take a
> sawsall and cut through the door frame where you know the powers going
> to the maglock, the doors open.  Door strikes are locked until
> energized. They are fail secure and a much better choice for security
> and life safety.

How could you defeat a properly installed strike?

Put a key in the lock. Open the door.
Then tell me who accessed the door? No Key Control= No Access Control.

> Maglocks are installed because they are easy and cheap.

And offer true access control. Physically.

>
> >Physically dis-allowing access to a door, is what access control is all
> >about. Now I agree that there are very few individuals, and companies
that
> >know how to correctly install a mag lock, but I also blame the AHJ's who
> >also have no clue about Maglocks either, or their correct disconnect
means.
> >Anything, and I mean anything, that is electronically driven to
de-energize
> >a maglock is incorrect right off the bat. Including touch bars, REX
motions,
> >Timers, etc., anything that is powered to work, period. Only a manual
> >physical means of disconnect will be 100%, in 100% of any application.
> >(Along with an FACP interface).
>
> Read NFPA101 for the approved method.  The commonly installed pull
> station that cuts power to the mag is fine and good, but doesn't meet
> code since it requires previous knowledge that it is there.

What? Previous knowledge? It's a big Blue Pull Station Marked "Emergency
Door Release"

  To meet
> Life Safety Code you need two REX deives including a 2" button at the
> door that says push to exit.  It's in the code in black and white.

First of all, you're drifting. NFPA, NEC, or what ever 3 letter word, or 4
letter word for that matter you want to state is simply a guideline. A
Manual Pull Station marked "Emergency Door Release" meets that code,
(Guideline). I've never been in a situation, and explained, and or
illustrated to an AHJ that hasn't approved it's intention. Timmers can fail,
as any electronically operated device, other than a manual release, which
works under ANY circumstance.
>
> >  Although it's a common
> >> practice here.  If you have controlled egress (swipe a card to get out
> >> of a building), then there must be an approved emergency exit device
> >> such as a touch sense bar or a pressure sensitive maglock that will
> >> release after an audible alarm sounds for 20 seconds.
> >
> >That can fail to work. This is were companies get in trouble. Don't relie
on
> >anything electronically powered to always work correctly, period.
>
> Actually, I've stated the only approved method according to NFPA101
> Life Safety Code for allowing maglocks on non-free egress exits. .
> I've done several applications that require emergency egress into
> securd areas.  Think fire door that opens into a SIDA area where only
> badged personnel are normally allowed.

Yeah, then tell me the Government follows NFPA101 in that instance? They're
all just guidelines.

Relax J, I know well enough you're capable of understanding the
circumstance(s). I was a little hot from your blanket statement about
Maglocks. I wasn't trying to start a war over this issue, just voicing my
opinion. If you can't control keys, you have no access control. I wish it
were as simple as eliminating the fears of Maglocks, verses installing a
strike to be safe (or free from liability), but a strike offers no audit
trail for controlling access. Magnetic locks are very safe when installed
correctly.
P.S. I liked the "cut the power to the building and wait".....bit....