Re: Help with 7 Circuit Project?

["Brett Griffin" <brett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> I'm not arguing semantics. I'm saying flat out that you do not seem to
> have
> much knowledge of the topics you are expounding on.

Well we can argue this till we are blue in the face, I may not be the most
knowledgeable fellow on this topic but I know enough to keep the
conversation going, I know enough to teach professional dealers how to
design and install it,  and while I may make a typo from 121Khz to 120 KHz,
fine. That your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

> The fact that UPB has been licensed to other manufacturers hasn't done
> anything to lower the price. X-10 was also available from many
> manufacturers. Did that make it better?

You are wrong here.  When PCS originally shipped the light switches they
were selling over $150 retail. They intentionally priced them 25% cheaper
than Radio RA.  The price is dropping radically if you were paying
attention.  Simply automated was selling switches retail around $85 a
switch.  now they sell a 1000watt switch for under $70.  UPB is more of a
professionally driven product.  Programming is more diverse than X-10, and
you can do a lot of tricks with UPB that the X-10 switch does not allow.  It
is not a hobbyist product like X-10.

Other manufacturers did a lot to the X-10 products.  I would say a comment
like that says you are not as knowledgeable as you pass your self off to be.
Take Lightolier, They were the first company to develop and sell a solution
to make a professional X-10 installation bullet proof.  The compose and the
firewall, virtually eliminated noise and signal quality issues, but it
wasn't at a cost, the firewall cost upwards of a $1000, and they make the
most expensive X-10 light switches around $100 retail.  Leviton, brought
Intellisense DHC (Decora Home Controls).  Intellisense was an AGC circuit
deigned battle the noise commonly found in residential homes.  Did it work,
yes it worked well, but it was not perfect.  In my home I have a mix of
Leviton and X-10 brand switches.  I never have a problem with the Leviton
DHC switches.  The switches work wonderfully and the X-10 branded switches
work when they want to.  I dont have an option where the X-10 brands are
because I want a non-dimming switch and there is no neutral present.  Look
at Smarthome, they are making the X-10 switches better by incorporating a
dual technology.  So yes other manufacturers make it better and cheaper.

> In this context, your 4 digit password is just as secure as 128-bit
> encryption. Neither does a damn thing to prevent capture and playback of
> codes. If "rdjy5roigdpb8gv" floats your boat, it will float your boat no
> matter who sends it. Rolling codes are reasonably secure but are seldom
> used
> for anything other than garage doors and for arming/disarming security
> systems.

Well the point is they decreased the possibility of home to home
interference.

> I'm surprised to learn that UPB systems need a paid professional to
> troubleshoot them.

Most of the jobs, troubleshooting X-10 is more about not having filters,
repeaters and couplers.  On both X-10 and UPB jobs, it is usually the
installer was not properly trained and did not install the switches
correctly.

--
Brett Griffin, Home Technology Consultant

Architechtronics, Inc.
get to know home technologyT
p. (610) 825.7018 f (215) 827.5484

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-------------------------------------------


"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:42c43d73.88022907@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I'm not arguing semantics. I'm saying flat out that you do not seem to
> have
> much knowledge of the topics you are expounding on.
>
> The fact that UPB has been licensed to other manufacturers hasn't done
> anything to lower the price. X-10 was also available from many
> manufacturers. Did that make it better?
>
> In this context, your 4 digit password is just as secure as 128-bit
> encryption. Neither does a damn thing to prevent capture and playback of
> codes. If "rdjy5roigdpb8gv" floats your boat, it will float your boat no
> matter who sends it. Rolling codes are reasonably secure but are seldom
> used
> for anything other than garage doors and for arming/disarming security
> systems.
>
> I'm surprised to learn that UPB systems need a paid professional to
> troubleshoot them.
>
> "Brett Griffin" <brett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>I have an excellent grasp on both X-10 and UPB, I am hired frequently to
>>help dealers troubleshoot either system.  My training of dealers required
>>me
>>to understand both systems, in order to teach and troubleshoot problems in
>>the field.  You and I arguing symantics is pointless, and is losing the
>>reader.
>>
>>You are missing the entire point of the post.  I was merely explaining to
>>those in the US and Canada that they should seriously take another look at
>>UPB.  Of course, UPB will not work in Europe, it is not even compatible
>>with
>>50 Hz.
>>
>>All manufacturers for liability reasons are recommending couplers, there
>>are
>>no repeaters.  PCS has determined only 8% of installations require a
>>coupler, and Manufacturers would rather be right 100% of the time than
>>wrong
>>8 % of the time.  Recommending it reduces tech support calls.
>>
>>You are right the password is merely a method to reduce cross talk between
>>home.  the are 256 house codes 256 unit address, and a 4 digit passcode
>>for
>>the system that equates to 64,000 address, and if you throw in the
>>passcode
>>in the mix, you could infer that there is 655 million possible
>>combinations.
>>I would not say it is secure like a wireless network using a 128 bit
>>encryption.  As far as homeowner feedback, this is one area where no news
>>is
>>good news.  You know if there were problems, they would show up in posts
>>here and everywhere.  It is new so we don't have many homeowner
>>testimonials, but no complaints with 18 months of installation has merit
>>worth considering.
>>
>>I have not fully reviewed Insteon, but my concern would be that it is not
>>supported by any other manufacturer.  I use Leviton DHC and Simply
>>Automated
>>UPB switches in my home.  Most home automation controllers are supporting
>>UPB and X-10.  My concern about Insteon is compatibility with HAI, Elk,
>>Home
>>Logic, and others.  I hope it is easy and compatible, my only thoughts
>>about
>>insteon, is "have they improved X-10" are they going to be susceptible to
>>noise like X-10?  Granted proper use of filter, couplers, and repeaters
>>nearly always make x10 reliable.
>>
>>I have enjoyed this discussion, have a nice day.
>