Re: leviton vizia RF switches (Z-wave)

["Dan Wright" <No_way@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:45fd113c.164227781@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Dan Wright" <No_way@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>news:45fcb433.140411640@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> "Dan Wright" <No_way@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I am yet to find a range/hops issue, even in the large installation.   I
>>>>have not done formal tests, but my current attitude is that it is good
>>>>enough up through the 3500 sqft range/single story, depending on layout.
>>>>Homeseer offers a tool that does Z-wave network analysis which would
>>>>help
>>>>with any  network issues..  It requires their Z-troller primary
>>>>controller.
>>>
>>> What's the distance between nodes? Does Vizia use 4 max hops?
>>
>>ViziaRF says it use up to 4 hops.
>>
>>Roughly the longest distance between nodes is about 25 feet.  Furthest
>>node
>>from the primary controller  is about 65 feet.
>>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Other than to hire you to install his system, what advice would you offer
> the OP who appears to be planning a sparsely populated Vizia network?

What I have done could be done by anyone.  I took the houses as they stood,
installed the wall switches and then brought up the network.   Short of a
McMansion with a replica of the Great Hall from Ballmoral Castle, I don't
see a situation where there would be more than 25ft, provided a house was
fully done.  Partial implementations could have issues.  Also bear in mind
where the command originates from matters.  If the transmitter is in the
center, 4 in each direction go a long ways.  One at the fringe of the
network may have more of a problem.

> Both Vizia and Intermatic's InTouch systems have only started shipping
> this
> month. Can you shed any light on why these second generation Z-Wave
> products
> cost so much more than the first generation products? Using
> AutomatedOutlet.com prices and comparing to Intermatic's original
> products,
> Vizia seems to cost about twice as much (although there's one $18 dimmer
> switch) while InTouch seems to cost nearly three times as much. One
> thought
> that comes to mind is that they have increased the sensitivity of the
> receivers which would be one way to improve range, FCC rules would
> prohibit
> increasing transmitted power but would not prevent improvements to the
> receivers.

Not sure about the cost and performance differences you bring up, as I said,
I've been working with Vizia as wall switches and a mix of hand helds.  The
Vizia units are scene capable, including the plug ins, not sure if that is
true for the other/earlier units.  As I said in a prior post I beleive $20
dimmer is for Vizia, not ViziaRF.  There may also be market based pricing at
work.  The Leviton X-10 products were perceived as being better than others
and were priced accordingly.

> The few range figures posted here have been biased in that they have
> involved transmitters that were outdoors sending to a module indoors (with
> no mention of intervening walls, etc.). In the video on the InTouch
> website,
> Intermatic says up to 100' range and the datasheet for the Vizia remote
> says
> 75' range but neither say whether this is free-air range. (Almost
> universally, manufacturers quote free-air range.) Echelon published a
> whitepaper that included hands on tests of Z-Wave (first generation) that
> indicated 20-30' reliable indoor range. A user in the UK found he couldn't
> reach a shed (40' away) without adding a module half-way between the shed
> and house. (This is not directly applicable because Europe uses a
> different
> frequency and allows different power levels.)
>
> http://www.echelon.com/support/documentation/documents/005-0171A_RF_White_Paper.pdf
>
> For anyone who doesn't understand the max hop issue, the video on the
> Intouch website addresses it.
>
> http://www.intouchcontrols.com/intouch-technology.php
>
> FCC rules allow higher power for systems that are primarily operated by a
> humanoid pushing a button and require reduced power for systems that send
> signals automatically. Automatic polling would appear to be a technical
> violation of the rules.

Citing free air range numbers would not surprise me.   Not sure how it could
be any other way for standardization, but it would also not be realistic,
sort of like the original EPA fuel economy numbers. If someone was concerned
they could get a starter kit (Primary remote and 2 wall warts) and use that
to test their own personal environment.