Re: 4K analog cameras

[ABLE1 <somewhere@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 5/30/2022 9:17 PM, Jim Davis wrote:
> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 5/28/2022 7:19 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>>> On 5/28/2022 9:36 PM, Jim Davis wrote:
>>>> Has anyone had any experience with 4K *Analog* cameras?
>>>> .
>>>> I have an estimate that I'm doing for someone that I installed analog
>>>> cameras for about 12 years ago (coax siamese). He wants to upgrade his
>>>> system and, of course, IP cameras have become more popular and down in
>>>> price in 12 years. He wants to add some cameras to his existing house
>>>> system and add cameras to his free standing humongous garage. (There's
>>>> an existing low voltage conduit that I recommended back then, between
>>>> house and garage)
>>>> So - - - - he wants me to give him three proposals.
>>>> .
>>>> 1. Replace all coax with Cat6 in the house and add  additional
>>>> cameras. With this system I can run Cat 6 to the garage and hook those
>>>> cameras in via a network switch. Whole system using 8MP (4K) cameras
>>>> and 16 channel NVR located in the house.
>>>> .
>>>> 2. Using existing coax and adding new coax for new cameras, use 4K
>>>> *analog* cameras in the house using 16 channel *DVR*
>>>> Install 8 channel *NVR* and 8 MP (4K) IP cameras  in the garage. This
>>>> requires using to app's to view cameras.
>>>> .
>>>> 3. Using existing coax and adding new coax for new cameras, use 4k
>>>> analog cameras in the house. However there is available a Hybrid NVR
>>>> /DVR available with 16 analog channels and 6 extra IP channels (using
>>>> external POE switch)  With this setup there would be only one recorder
>>>> in the house.
>>>> .
>>>> I know cost is going to be a major consideration especially for labor
>>>> in option #1 but he's going to have to weigh that against convenience
>>>> accessibility and capability. The original wiring was done during
>>>> reconstruction so not easy to get to same locations of existing
>>>> cameras in the house.
>>>> Analog systems don't have any of the special features that the IP
>>>> systems have but residential doesn't require most of them anyway.
>>>> (line crossing, license plate, facial recognition, etc) which the IP
>>>> cameras I'd be using would only have audio and line crossing.
>>>> I thought that frame rate would be a problem between analog and IP but
>>>> the IP recorder has 16 FPS and the Analog recorder is 15 FPS. so no
>>>> problem there. Supplier says that there have been no complaints on the
>>>> analog 4K products.
>>>> Starting off with 10TB hard drives and can add a second HD in each of
>>>> the recorders if necessary.
>>>> So ----- original question --- anyone have any experience with 4K
>>>> *analog* video or suggestions/comments on any of the above?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jim,
>>>
>>> WOW!!!
>>>
>>> For a residential customer to want all of that whichever way is a bit
>>> extreme to say the least!!
>>>
>>> To answer your question specifically.  No I have not.
>>> I have upgraded a couple old coax systems with new DVR and cameras.
>>> However the cameras I used were 1080P.  Picture was leaps above the
>>> original 720p's.
>>>
>>> I would guess that as long as you get the right recorder with proper
>>> capabilities for 4K it should go well.
>>>
>>> Personally I would have a problem working up three different proposals
>>> for the customer to say he is not going to do right now for some dumb
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> I presently have a customer that has asked for a Security Upgrade
>>> Proposal 3 times in the past 8 years.  Just sent him the recent
>>> 2 months ago.  Another waste of my time!!!
>>>
>>> Good luck on your quest!!  Hope it goes well and profitable.
>>>
>>> Les
>> Digital Watchdog, had some relatively affordable HD over coax (not sure
>> about 4K) systems last time I looked. They even worked (back then) with
>> other MFGs cameras. You just had to have the same make, model, &
>> resolution of camera (I suspect format nuance) for pairs of camera. I
>> installed a few DW DVRs and they were ok, but they had the typical tech
>> company attitude of fail fast - fail often. I often had to update DVRs
>> in the field to get them to work properly. I never used their NVRs. I
>> used that Chinese company that you guys were complaining about not all
>> that long ago for X.X-MPs over Cat wire. They were much more
>> restrictive, but I suppose you know that.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>
> Les, It's not as many cameras as you might expect. He wants 10 on the house and 6 in/on the garage. So, not the full capability of the recorders. The house IS pretty big and the garage is two story and enough room for four cars and about a 20 by 20 foot workshop area and a loft on the second story. There's a pool, a cook area and recreational area that he want's covered so that pretty much covers the entire perimeter and the inside of the garage. To add to the confusion, he wants 2 outdoor speakers on the house, two on the garage and 3 or four in the ground leading up the the pool where I installed 4 rock speakers and Sonos amp a few years ago.
> Probably spend the day tomorrow doing the estimate. CCTV supplier told me to get back to him quick. In two weeks since my last purchase the NVR"S went up $20.00 and the cameras almost $40.00   JEEEEZ!
> Bob, I've been using Invid cameras and NVR's for the past few years with reeealy great results. Had one bad camera out of the box which was replaced by the supplier. Invid has a three year warranty. Plug and play cameras, P2P app linking ( ie. no port forwarding) Accepts, all ONVIF devices and superb technical support. ( no 1 hour hang time)  Factory about 20 minutes away and NOT made in China.


Jim, I understand.  I have a few residential customers with cameras.
One that doesn't look at the cameras for maybe 3 months or so.  Needless
to say they only look at them because something happen.  The frustrating
part is that the system has been down for some reason or another for a
month or more, that is when I get the CALL!!!  And I try and figure out
what happened a month or more before.  :-(

Commercial customers are looking at the cameras on a daily basis.  :-)

As for InVid, I have been using them as well.  Not as long as you and
I am still learning stuff.  What I find somewhat frustrating is the
Function Terminologies.  Can't say what at this time but basically
the word used for bla bla bla is different with other systems but
they to the same thing??

As for a bad product from InVid I had one camera as well.  It was
replaced very quickly.  I do find the local Sales Rep very knowledgeable
and responds very quickly when I need an assist.

I did a job last year and used a back box with a pendant for a Turret
Ball camera.  The Back Box was the same I had used from HikVision.
The Box they came in had a small area of the box cut out with a sticky
label with the InVid part number.  Hmmmmmmmm!! I guess there is a bit
of Cross Matching on product lines??? :-)

I hope your project goes well.  Let us know which of the three possible
solutions you end up going with.  Maybe the easy one???  ;-)

Later,

Les