Re: Automatic fire sprinklers

[nick markowitz <nmarkowitz@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Jan 12, 1:31=A0am, Frank Kurz <t...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 11/01/2011 5:11 PM, nick markowitz wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 7:05 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
> > <cayoung61**spambloc...@xxxxxxxxxxx> =A0wrote:
> >> Can you believe this? =A0I think Even actually thinks Congress
> >> has, or ought to have the power to force us all to buy
> >> safety stuff? Must be public school student.
>
> >> --
> >> Christopher A. Young
> >> Learn more about Jesus
> >> =A0www.lds.org
> >> .
>
> >> "Evan"<evan.news.re...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> =A0wrote in message
>
> >>news:197f28be-6bdd-44ac-9d5e-7f65b8d9dcdf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=
..
> >> On Jan 11, 10:26 am, "Stormin Mormon"
>
> >> <cayoung61**spambloc...@xxxxxxxxxxx> =A0wrote:
> >>> I don't remember reading in the Constitution. Where it
> >>> gives
> >>> any level of government power to force us to buy safety
> >>> equipment.
>
> >>> --
> >>> Christopher A. Young
> >>> Learn more about Jesus
> >>>www.lds.org
>
> >> Perhaps you do not know how to read the Constitution nor how
> >> to
> >> interpret what is written there and how the Supreme Court of
> >> the
> >> United States has interpreted and clarified the document in
> >> the
> >> ensuing 223 years since it was written by the founding
> >> fathers
> >> and architects of our country...
>
> >> The fact that you can *buy* anything is at the discretion of
> >> the US Congress which has the sole authority on the
> >> regulation
> >> of Commerce in the United States...
>
> >> Article I, =A7 8:
>
> >> -- "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the
> >> several states, and with the Indian tribes;"
>
> >> (Commonly referred to as the "Commerce Clause")
>
> >> -- "To make rules for the government and regulation of the
> >> land
> >> and naval forces;"
>
> >> -- "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for
> >> carrying
> >> into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers
> >> vested by
> >> this Constitution in the government of the United States, or
> >> in any
> >> department or officer thereof."
>
> >> (Commonly referred to as the "Necessary and Proper Clause")
>
> >> So it is written there, just not in the terms which you seem
> >> to
> >> need it to be so that you can clearly understand it I
> >> guess...
>
> >> Unless you are building a log cabin using only locally
> >> available
> >> materials (meaning you chopped down the logs yourself) you
> >> are engaging in and benefiting from interstate commerce to
> >> procure your supplies and materials which had to move across
> >> state lines to arrive at the local store from which you
> >> purchased
> >> them... =A0THAT gives Congress the power to decide on how
> >> those
> >> materials should be sold and used... =A0Or to require any
> >> safety
> >> laws it feels are necessary...
>
> >> It is my opinion that in the next few coming generations of
> >> the National Building Code that automatic fire sprinklers
> >> will
> >> soon be a nationwide requirement...
>
> >> ~~ Evan
>
> > Tom
> > You do not know it
> > I am a Private Industry Fire Investigator. besides being a very good
> > trouble shooter. and write regularly on the subject including Pa.
> > Assoc of Arson investigators newsletters which I was just in and Pa
> > Fireman's magazine and occasionally for Al at SSI to name a few
> > and I have served as an Driver/Engineer in a volunteer fire dept.Penn
> > Hills 4# and still help out Emsworth VFD as I can
> > That means pump operator. I know all about moving water around.
> > I also have an oil industry customer where I design high volume
> > pumping/heating equipment for oil and water the pictures are on my
> > Face Book wall
>
> > I know what I am talking about.So do not try bull shiting me.
> > Yes insurance company do raise rates it happened to my customer here
> > in Pa when he put sprinklers in a million dollar home called
> > Graceland =A0at Nemacolin Woodlands a very high end resort built by 84
> > lumber magnate in fact many states had to pass laws to stop insurance
> > company from jack up rates when sprinklers in homes where installed.
> > Would you like his phone number.Plus a couple others.
> > He also got disgusted and turned them off after they froze up 2
> > different times and he too was a volunteer firefighter.
> > I got news for you drum drips need emptied monthly would you care to
> > come here to PA. and I will take you to my customers and see all the
> > water that comes out of the pipes,at places I take care of. We have
> > wild temp swings here
> > it goes to 8 degrees at night and goes to 40 in day this constant up
> > and down expansion puts water in the pipes regardless if there is air
> > in them or not. Of course if you lived in a =A0cold climate like I do
> > here you would know that.
> > Would you like to see the reports from Cranberry Twp and Penn Hills
> > Fire depts. for how many times they have responded to frozen drum
> > drips that burst at my customers.Would you like the phone numbers of
> > sprinkler company's =A0and AHJ in my area who will tell you the same
> > thing.
> > Your not playing with some amateur here.
>
> Temperature swings aren't the only reason water forms in dry system
> pipes. =A0Whenever you compress air, you're also going to produce moistur=
e
> which will precipitate into the system's low points over time. =A0In ever=
y
> city across Canada, we have to "winterize" dry systems by draining the
> low points or risk having them trip if the collection points freeze.
>
> As for mandating sprinklers, there are several municipalities I work in
> where you must install sprinkler systems in every new home. =A0Maple
> Ridge, Vancouver, and Richmond to name a few. =A0I suppose our insurance
> companies are a bit more "progressive" here. =A0If your home is equipped
> with a sprinkler system, you actually qualify for a discount on
> home-owners insurance.
>
> I see it as a matter of education. =A0Typically systems that "freeze" are
> either not maintained properly or have installation issues that relate
> to their design. =A0These days, people with sprinkler systems (in
> Vancouver at least) are required to submit back-flow preventer
> inspection reports on an annual basis. =A0No reason why the guy doing the
> testing shouldn't also check to make sure everything else is "up to snuff=
".
>
> --
> Frank Kurzwww.firetechs.net

Your right Frank it all comes down to education and choices.
Which the message is still not getting to those most vulnerable.

As far as the GFCI issue and electrocutions  they have played an
important roll as more and more pools are installed but again how many
GFCI outlets I have installed in Past 30+ years if called upon right
now would still work?
I can tell you at least 50% failed if tested and many already replaced
by newer generation GFCI outlets
there has been 3 generational changes in the specs when it comes to
GFCI protection because they keep finding out they fail so many years
out particularly when mounted in outside outlets.
I put them in I show people how they work how they should be tested
and they are forgotten about till needed.
Some of my customers we do annual testing  to meet OSHA and Insurance
requirments and yes there's a high failure rate as outlets age.