Re: UL trying to get rid of combo panels

[nick markowitz <nmarkowitz@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Jul 3, 1:57=A0pm, "Bob La Londe" <nos...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> "nick markowitz" <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> news:e49e63a2-225d-426e-9218-e1a30f328e75@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> > On Jul 2, 9:27 pm, "Doug" <n...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> "nick markowitz" <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> >>news:92f3205a-37ec-4844-8292-06b43372adc7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=
..
>
> >> > Had a DSC rep tell me UL has plans to eliminate combo fire/burg pane=
ls
> >> > down the road .
>
> That's because DSC's combo panel doesn't meet the latest standards.
>
> >> > because the insurance industry is pushing it.
>
> Insurance companies want to minimize risk and maximize profits. =A0PERIOD=
.
>
> >>> =A0Have no truth to this
> >> > either way But I got news for both groups
> >> > if your even thinking about it better forget about it.
> >> > I will be among the first to bring a class actions suits against you=
 .
> >> > combo panels have there place and function in the world of integrati=
on
> >> > and taking them away will take away a valuable tool to the integrato=
r.
> >> > If the public ever knew all the horse shit that goes on in setting U=
L
> >> > and insurance regs etc.and money you have cost them they would burn
> >> > you at the stake.
>
> >> I personally think that using combo panels for commercial fire shouldn=
't
> >> be
> >> allowed and some jurisdictions don't allow them anyway.
>
> That may be possible, but I think it is more likely that they do not allo=
w
> fire panels that do not meet the current listing standard that they have
> adopted into the code for their area. =A0The old 4020CF didn't even meet =
the
> old standards, but it got used like it did.
>
> > Then you have never seen them properly applied in an industrial
> > command and control integration solution.
> > it would take 4 panels to do now what one combo can do .
>
> Yeah, but to meet some codes with the panels that are available today you
> need a 2-3 panels. =A0To my knowledge there isn't a combo panel on the US
> market that meets all the latest standards.
>
> > and would not afford the safety a combo can.
> > I do a lot of work in the petro- chemical areas where stand alone fire
> > and burg panels do not cut it. when you are trying to comply with not
> > only homeland security requirements =A0but also EPA ,OSHA and the new
> > Mass notification systems.
>
> What already on the market panels meet all of those requirements and all =
the
> current latest standards?
>
> > Its a shame there are fully IP integrated panels in EU you are never
> > going to see here =A0we keep going backwards in technology while there
> > going forward.
>
> Its slow...
>
> > Yes there are definitely some areas combos should not be used
>
> If a combo panel existed that met current fire standards and also worked =
as
> a burg or burg access panel why shouldn't it be used instead of two panel=
s?
>
> > but
> > there are areas where they should only be used.
>
> Integration is easier, but there are access systems that are designed to
> integrate a number of other systems into their overall architecture.
>
>
>
> > The combo panel is only panel which gives you true complete
> > supervision to all components of the life safety system.
> > you are designing in an industrial situation. and life safety means a
> > lot more than fire and burg.in an industrial setting.
> > There's not one AHJ who has ever turned me down after i have shown
> > them what a combo panel can do including the wireless fire capability
> > when =A0they have come into one of my existing layouts and seen it in
> > action.
> > EPA,OSHA, DHS love them.
> > Only a combo allows me to do
>
> > high/low heat =A0Hi Low =A0PH etc.
> > Spill =A0alert =A0and control
> > dike overflow alert
> > man down alert
> > Oil Burner =A0ignition failure and control =A0so maintenance is notifie=
d
> > theirs a problem before there a false fire dispatch
> > 3 phase power monitor and control
> > tank overflow alert
> > interlock safety systems for production areas.
> > multi alert horns and strobe light colors for alert in progress
> > and it goes on and on.
> > 1 supervised =A0wire =A0sending data =A0from all points =A0 not 4 separ=
ate
> > systems 4 separate wires and only 1 supervised.
>
> Napco does have a new panel coming out that claims to meet all the latest
> standards. =A0Its finaling at UL, and they have listed it on their websit=
e. =A0I
> am on the beta list.

It looks awesome just hope it is cant wait to get my hands on one