Re: UL trying to get rid of combo panels

["Bob La Londe" <nospam@xxxxxxxxx>]

"nick markowitz" <nmarkowitz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e49e63a2-225d-426e-9218-e1a30f328e75@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> On Jul 2, 9:27 pm, "Doug" <n...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> "nick markowitz" <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>
>> news:92f3205a-37ec-4844-8292-06b43372adc7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> > Had a DSC rep tell me UL has plans to eliminate combo fire/burg panels
>> > down the road .

That's because DSC's combo panel doesn't meet the latest standards.

>> > because the insurance industry is pushing it.

Insurance companies want to minimize risk and maximize profits.  PERIOD.

>>>  Have no truth to this
>> > either way But I got news for both groups
>> > if your even thinking about it better forget about it.
>> > I will be among the first to bring a class actions suits against you .
>> > combo panels have there place and function in the world of integration
>> > and taking them away will take away a valuable tool to the integrator.
>> > If the public ever knew all the horse shit that goes on in setting UL
>> > and insurance regs etc.and money you have cost them they would burn
>> > you at the stake.
>>
>> I personally think that using combo panels for commercial fire shouldn't
>> be
>> allowed and some jurisdictions don't allow them anyway.

That may be possible, but I think it is more likely that they do not allow
fire panels that do not meet the current listing standard that they have
adopted into the code for their area.  The old 4020CF didn't even meet the
old standards, but it got used like it did.

> Then you have never seen them properly applied in an industrial
> command and control integration solution.
> it would take 4 panels to do now what one combo can do .

Yeah, but to meet some codes with the panels that are available today you
need a 2-3 panels.  To my knowledge there isn't a combo panel on the US
market that meets all the latest standards.

> and would not afford the safety a combo can.
> I do a lot of work in the petro- chemical areas where stand alone fire
> and burg panels do not cut it. when you are trying to comply with not
> only homeland security requirements  but also EPA ,OSHA and the new
> Mass notification systems.

What already on the market panels meet all of those requirements and all the
current latest standards?

> Its a shame there are fully IP integrated panels in EU you are never
> going to see here  we keep going backwards in technology while there
> going forward.


Its slow...

> Yes there are definitely some areas combos should not be used

If a combo panel existed that met current fire standards and also worked as
a burg or burg access panel why shouldn't it be used instead of two panels?

> but
> there are areas where they should only be used.

Integration is easier, but there are access systems that are designed to
integrate a number of other systems into their overall architecture.

> The combo panel is only panel which gives you true complete
> supervision to all components of the life safety system.
> you are designing in an industrial situation. and life safety means a
> lot more than fire and burg.in an industrial setting.
> There's not one AHJ who has ever turned me down after i have shown
> them what a combo panel can do including the wireless fire capability
> when  they have come into one of my existing layouts and seen it in
> action.
> EPA,OSHA, DHS love them.
> Only a combo allows me to do
>
> high/low heat  Hi Low  PH etc.
> Spill  alert  and control
> dike overflow alert
> man down alert
> Oil Burner  ignition failure and control  so maintenance is notified
> theirs a problem before there a false fire dispatch
> 3 phase power monitor and control
> tank overflow alert
> interlock safety systems for production areas.
> multi alert horns and strobe light colors for alert in progress
> and it goes on and on.
> 1 supervised  wire  sending data  from all points   not 4 separate
> systems 4 separate wires and only 1 supervised.

Napco does have a new panel coming out that claims to meet all the latest
standards.  Its finaling at UL, and they have listed it on their website.  I
am on the beta list.