Re: DSC 832 on Cable VoIP

[Jim <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

On Jan 3, 6:28=EF=BF=BDpm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 5:32=EF=BF=BDpm, mleuck <m.le...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 3, 2:26=EF=BF=BDpm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 3, 2:21=EF=BF=BDpm, mleuck <m.le...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 2, 11:04=EF=BF=BDpm, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 2, 7:33 pm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jan 2, 6:09 pm, "Robert L Bass" <nore...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wro=
te:
>
> > > > > > > "Effenpig1" wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I won't use anything but a POTS line for sending signals wi=
th the built in
> > > > > > > > communicator...
>
> > > > > > > I understand the concern with all the problems that have come=
 up so far.
> > > > > > > However, it appears as though all of the major carriers are g=
oing to switch to
> > > > > > > some version of VoIP, even for what we now know as POTS lines=
. Many of the
> > > > > > > inter-city trunks are already digitized and the rest are goin=
g that way. Only
> > > > > > > time will tell what kind of hoops the alarm industry will hav=
e to jump through
> > > > > > > just to get a signal down the line.
>
> > > > > > > > Any other phone service gets IP monitoring or cellular...
>
> > > > > > > We're getting a lot more calls for cellular backup and even f=
or cellular as
> > > > > > > primary these days. Most are not yet coming from residences t=
hough. A couple
> > > > > > > of our regular clients operate remote pumping stations that h=
ave to be monitored
> > > > > > > 24/7 for pressure, water level, etc. These are for both fresh=
 and waste water
> > > > > > > facilities. It's surprizing some of the niches that alarm gea=
r finds its way
> > > > > > > into.
>
> > > > > > > > Sending signals over anything other than a standard phone l=
ine with the panels
> > > > > > > > digital communicator opens you up to serious liability shou=
ld there be a
> > > > > > > > communications failure resulting in loss...
>
> > > > > > > A lot of that depends on how well you've worded your contract=
, but certainly
> > > > > > > it's better to avoid the loss than deal with the jury. :^)
>
> > > > > > > --
>
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Robert L Bass
>
> > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>
> > > > > > > Bass Home Electronics
> > > > > > > DIY Alarm and Home Automation Storehttp://www.bassburglaralar=
ms.com
> > > > > > > Sales & Service 941-870-2310
> > > > > > > Fax 941-870-3252
> > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>
>
> > > > > > RHC: I guess I'll try the 4/2 format as Nick suggested before I=
 swap
> > > > > > out the board. It just doesn't seem logical that the panel shou=
ld
> > > > > > seize the line and dial out only under some conditions but not
> > > > > > others...you'd think it would work totally or not at all.....??=
???
>
> > > > > > I've sold quite a few of the Uplink 2530 cellular devices as a =
primary
> > > > > > means of communication, where the client didn't have a home pho=
ne and
> > > > > > had no intention of ever getting one. But at nearly $300 my cos=
t
> > > > > > (including the 3 amp power supply, battery and transformer need=
ed),
> > > > > > and extra monitoring costs, they aren't a big seller. Those tha=
t have
> > > > > > bought, have looked at their ongoing home phone line costs, and=
 figure
> > > > > > it costs about 6 or 7 months to pay off the unit; then figure t=
he
> > > > > > extra ongoing $10 is still cheaper than a phone line.
>
> > > > > > I sell a lot of high end panels in homes where the cable phone =
service
> > > > > > is the only service wired in there. It's going to start making =
me very
> > > > > > nervous if I have to wait until the job is done and only find o=
ut when
> > > > > > I go to put it on line, that it doesn't work. This is the first=
 panel
> > > > > > I've run up against that has exhibited this problem. I normally=
 put in
> > > > > > the SP6000 / 7000 / 5050 Magellan panels from Paradox and have =
never
> > > > > > had a problem....(yet). Their board technology is a lot newer t=
han
> > > > > > DSC's so maybe that has something to do with it....(fingers cro=
ssed)-
>
> > > > > Since the beginning of this switch over to VoIP (in spite of all =
the
> > > > > warnings and trepidation) I haven't heard of anyone having a cons=
tant
> > > > > major problem with the cable company telephone service here. Just=
 a
> > > > > note, those that have had problems were not using Napco. I haven'=
t had
> > > > > any problems except for the following, =EF=BF=BDwhich have nothin=
g to do with
> > > > > quality of signal. 1/ Cable techs back feed the telephone service=
 to
> > > > > the alarm system and the alarm panel still senses telephone servi=
ce
> > > > > but can't call out. I tell my clients to test their system before=
 the
> > > > > cable guy leaves but sometimes they don't. 2/ In some areas, the =
cable
> > > > > service goes out in the middle of the night causing the line faul=
t
> > > > > monitor to sound the alarm. Some clients I've had to remove the l=
ine
> > > > > fault monitoring option. 3/ At the beginning I had a few instance=
s of
> > > > > not being able to sustain communication during a download. But th=
at
> > > > > doesn't seem to be a problem anymore. No reports of alarm signals=
 not
> > > > > going through.
>
> > > > > Bob, with regard to your problem, since you said =EF=BF=BDyour pr=
oblem was
> > > > > only on some specific signals, the following comes to mind: Why d=
o you
> > > > > and DSC not think that Contact ID would work where SIA wouldn't? =
That
> > > > > is ... why wouldn't DSC recommend Contact ID first, before
> > > > > recommending 4/2?
>
> > > > I've had better luck with 4/2, it =EF=BF=BDworks far more often tha=
n CID and
> > > > SIA although you'd think CID wouldn't have problems. And brand does=
n't
> > > > matter, I've seen the same problems with Honeywell, Napco and GE
>
> > > RHC: Thanks ! Have you seen this phenomenon where a panel will send
> > > some signals and not others...that just doesn't seem logical to me.
>
> > It isn't, I've seen panels retry a number of times because they
> > couldn't complete a set of signals but not send a particular signal
>
> RHC: Yes, I can see the panel trying the number of times it's set to
> call and continue to retry until it either gets through or generates a
> "failure to communicate" trouble. However, this panel is simply not
> even trying tro call depending upon what set of signals it is supposed
> to send. Manual test, excludes the line, and goes through perfectly.
> Keypad alarms and regular alarms and restores....it doesn't even pick
> up the line and try =EF=BF=BD????
> I'm going over there Tuesday evening and I'll post what I do to solve
> the problem (or not). Changing the board and having it work only tells
> me there may be something slightly incompatible between the original
> 832 board and the cable system (or that the original board was
> defective for some reason....) Changing to another make of panel
> (Paradox) and having it work really doesn't actually solve why this is
> happening, other than to finally get this customer on line. I do know
> though, thatI have far fewer "unexplainable" problems with Paradox
> equipment than with DSC for some reason....-

Robert, are you saying that the panel doesn't even pick up the line
and attempt to dial? If so, that shouldn't have a thing to do with the
type of telephone service. That would be a panel/programing
malfuction.

If it's something other than that, some other things come to mind. If
you're in the mood for experimenting, and the panel has the
capability,  try removing dial tone detect. Try putting a delay in
front of the dialing sequence.  Try dialing, program a longer delay,
program not waiting for a handshake .... or other combinations of the
above ...... just to see what happens.