Re: Panel grounding

[Effenpig1 <dirtyspicevent@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Dec 13, 11:33=A0pm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 11:02=A0pm, Effenpig1 <dirtyspicev...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 13, 7:13=A0pm, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 13, 6:50=A0pm, Effenpig1 <dirtyspicev...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 13, 6:33=A0pm, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 13, 2:49=A0pm, "Kid" <k...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "tourman" <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:b3c7c123-86b8-4de2-9c98-fbc2ee313077@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=
s.com...
> > > > > > On Dec 13, 10:25 am, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrot=
e:
>
> > > > > > > On Dec 13, 9:47 am, "Kid" <k...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > "tourman" <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > > >news:7e9334a2-056d-4dbe-bc6c-e4ec70a81829@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=
roups.com...
> > > > > > > > RHC: Yeah, I agree with you. I keep precise statistics on s=
ervice
> > > > > > > > work. With over 1000 panels in service, I have had to repla=
ce a total
> > > > > > > > of 8 boards due to electrical surges damaging the panel in =
15 years.
> > > > > > > > Had I installed the Elk grounding unit for everyone, that w=
ould have
> > > > > > > > been a cost of over $30,000 with limited payback. I prefer =
to spend
> > > > > > > > the extra money on upgraded keypads and upgraded pet motion=
s for
> > > > > > > > everyone, and deal with dead panels as they happen (at $50 =
a pop plus
> > > > > > > > cost of a service call). This with a severe lightning strik=
e problem
> > > > > > > > in parts of our city being a known fact as well...
>
> > > > > > > > BTW, two of those damaged panels were at one rural customer=
 location,
> > > > > > > > and both within a week of each other. I guess the telephone=
 company
> > > > > > > > plant was poorly grounded. This was early on, and It took m=
e twice to
> > > > > > > > learn....:((
>
> > > > > > > > I have a customer that had been hit twice before I put the =
elk unit on.
> > > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > house is on a granite outcrop and he apparently can.t get a=
 very good
> > > > > > > > ground. on the third hit the elk unit blew out knocking out=
 the phone
> > > > > > > > line.
> > > > > > > > but the panel board was ok. all I had to do was replace the=
 elk unit.
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > much difference between the price of the elk unit and a new=
 board,
> > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > > made me wonder if it was really worth it but it was easier =
to replace
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > elk unit than rewire a new board. if the panel was like the=
 old moose
> > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > you could just pop a board on without touching the wiring I=
 might think
> > > > > > > > twice.
>
> > > > > > > Im dealing with commercial fire and high end combo fire/burg =
panels
> > > > > > > and the panels have to work its a life safety issue
> > > > > > > and we get plenty of lightning and high wind storms, brown ou=
ts ,
> > > > > > > poles hit etc here in Pa. so the protection is well worth it =
$25.00 to
> > > > > > > save upwards of several thousand dollars.
>
> > > > > > > Have customers who had direct hits and there buildings were s=
aved as
> > > > > > > well as vast majority of equipment was saved Vs other buildin=
gs hit
> > > > > > > around here that went up in flames go figure.
> > > > > > > It is just like the $100.00- 3 phase power protectors I insta=
ll on
> > > > > > > machines etc which saves thousands of dollars in motor replac=
ement.
>
> > > > > > RHC: I don't disagree with you Nick. It's just like everything =
else in
> > > > > > business....it's cost versus gain. Your life saving situations =
are
> > > > > > precisely where any and all protection is worth every penny. Bu=
t for
> > > > > > "low end" residential systems, where every nickel spent is unde=
r
> > > > > > question by the customer, it might even "break" the sale !!!! I=
t's not
> > > > > > cost effective in these situations to do so from any perspectiv=
e when
> > > > > > so few systems are affected.....
>
> > > > > > plus there is no quarantee when it comes to lightening. =A0it c=
an just as
> > > > > > easily blow out the protection and the panel.
>
> > > > > Another reason i do not do residential.
> > > > > no money in it.
> > > > > lets see do 20 residential systems to make what i do on high end
> > > > > integrated commercial real tough one there.
>
> > > > I guess that depends on how you look at it. You could also spin it =
to
> > > > say you could do 20 small residential systems in the same time it
> > > > takes to do one high end integrated commercial system, and collect =
RMR
> > > > from all 20 of those accounts indefinitely.
>
> > > > But for me the choice is easy since their is virtually no demand fo=
r
> > > > high end commercial systems in my service area.
>
> > > > I have a hard time believing that you would convince any small, mos=
tly
> > > > residential/light commercial dealer with a decent number of account=
s
> > > > that there is " no money in it ". =A0I guess it would all depend on=
 each
> > > > individuals perception how much money "no money" is.
>
> > > I have the advantage of not having to rely on RMR on accounts I make
> > > money both installs and service plus I offer services no one else can
> > > on the integration end . Since I am cross trained in electronics ,
> > > electrician and refrigeration
> > > I can offer some very unique designed systems.
> > > I could step away from alarms today and make money selling telco/data
> > > services, commercial sound /paging and intercom ,electrical/trouble
> > > shooting services and =A0electrical mechanical design services you
> > > should see the custom built 12/24 DC and 220/480 VAC =A0control syste=
ms
> > > I build for people.
> > > =A0and =A0never touch an alarm panel. Plus I am a Broadcast engineer =
i
> > > could just work in that field full time if i wanted to.
> > > I was fortunate enough 30 yrs ago to see the steel mills were going
> > > down around here so I went to every trade school and class i could ge=
t
> > > my hands on I figured this way i would always have work which was a
> > > good thing.
> > > Alarms are just part of the services I can offer a customer. So I do
> > > not go out and bid against alarm company's customers come looking for
> > > me because the custom work I can do that no one else can. Yet idiots
> > > around here think I am stealing work from them when it is work they
> > > can not do. I am not even in the phone book and do not advertise.
>
> > > Ask Al Colombo from SSI Magazine he has seen a lot of my stuff.
>
> > Well, that's great for you, BUT, the only things I have mastered so
> > far are tying my shoes and installing alarm systems, so I guess I'm
> > screwed.
>
> > Actually, I worked as an electrician from 18-15 and in alarm systems
> > from 25-31 so I guess I could always fall back on electrical if I had
> > to. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, maybe I'm an RMR
> > whore, but if it doesn't produce RMR I don't see the point in doing
> > it.
>
> > How did we get here from panel grounding?
>
> RHC: Oh, don't worry about it.... this is the norm in this newsgroup
> of straying off the original topic. Just about every thread goes off
> topic after most everything constructive has been said about the
> original topic; then it degenerates quickly with one or two people
> sniping at one or two others, and it's a downhill spiral from
> there.....only solution I've found is to ignore the balance of the
> thread after it starts to go south. You know it's definately "over"
> when RLB receives a shot or two.....:))

But he hasn't been around lately, so everything should be happy,
flowers,puppies and kittens and all that, right?