Re: Panel grounding

[Effenpig1 <dirtyspicevent@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Dec 13, 6:40=A0pm, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 6:33=A0pm, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 13, 2:49=A0pm, "Kid" <k...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > "tourman" <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> > >news:b3c7c123-86b8-4de2-9c98-fbc2ee313077@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=
..
> > > On Dec 13, 10:25 am, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 13, 9:47 am, "Kid" <k...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > > "tourman" <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:7e9334a2-056d-4dbe-bc6c-e4ec70a81829@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=
com...
> > > > > RHC: Yeah, I agree with you. I keep precise statistics on service
> > > > > work. With over 1000 panels in service, I have had to replace a t=
otal
> > > > > of 8 boards due to electrical surges damaging the panel in 15 yea=
rs.
> > > > > Had I installed the Elk grounding unit for everyone, that would h=
ave
> > > > > been a cost of over $30,000 with limited payback. I prefer to spe=
nd
> > > > > the extra money on upgraded keypads and upgraded pet motions for
> > > > > everyone, and deal with dead panels as they happen (at $50 a pop =
plus
> > > > > cost of a service call). This with a severe lightning strike prob=
lem
> > > > > in parts of our city being a known fact as well...
>
> > > > > BTW, two of those damaged panels were at one rural customer locat=
ion,
> > > > > and both within a week of each other. I guess the telephone compa=
ny
> > > > > plant was poorly grounded. This was early on, and It took me twic=
e to
> > > > > learn....:((
>
> > > > > I have a customer that had been hit twice before I put the elk un=
it on.
> > > > > his
> > > > > house is on a granite outcrop and he apparently can.t get a very =
good
> > > > > ground. on the third hit the elk unit blew out knocking out the p=
hone
> > > > > line.
> > > > > but the panel board was ok. all I had to do was replace the elk u=
nit.
> > > > > not
> > > > > much difference between the price of the elk unit and a new board=
,
> > > > > though.
> > > > > made me wonder if it was really worth it but it was easier to rep=
lace
> > > > > the
> > > > > elk unit than rewire a new board. if the panel was like the old m=
oose
> > > > > where
> > > > > you could just pop a board on without touching the wiring I might=
 think
> > > > > twice.
>
> > > > Im dealing with commercial fire and high end combo fire/burg panels
> > > > and the panels have to work its a life safety issue
> > > > and we get plenty of lightning and high wind storms, brown outs ,
> > > > poles hit etc here in Pa. so the protection is well worth it $25.00=
 to
> > > > save upwards of several thousand dollars.
>
> > > > Have customers who had direct hits and there buildings were saved a=
s
> > > > well as vast majority of equipment was saved Vs other buildings hit
> > > > around here that went up in flames go figure.
> > > > It is just like the $100.00- 3 phase power protectors I install on
> > > > machines etc which saves thousands of dollars in motor replacement.
>
> > > RHC: I don't disagree with you Nick. It's just like everything else i=
n
> > > business....it's cost versus gain. Your life saving situations are
> > > precisely where any and all protection is worth every penny. But for
> > > "low end" residential systems, where every nickel spent is under
> > > question by the customer, it might even "break" the sale !!!! It's no=
t
> > > cost effective in these situations to do so from any perspective when
> > > so few systems are affected.....
>
> > > plus there is no quarantee when it comes to lightening. =A0it can jus=
t as
> > > easily blow out the protection and the panel.
>
> > Another reason i do not do residential.
> > no money in it.
> > lets see do 20 residential systems to make what i do on high end
> > integrated commercial real tough one there.
>
> You think residential a tough sell now wait till they cost of
> sprinklers and all breakers have to be arc fault style at $40.00 a pop
> plus new energy insulation standards including a vacuum test all come
> into effect in next 2 years they will not be building homes any more.

I guess it really all comes down to the market in the area you
service. "You think residential is tough to sell now"? Not where I
live. . Plus most builders in my area, especially those who sub out
the wiring to electrical contractors, have been installing arc-fault
breakers for some time now. An average home around here might have 10
to 15 receptacle circuits, assuming a standard single pole breaker
costs an average of $5, and an arc fault $40,  that means an increase
of $350 to $525. Not a huge difference on a $100,000+ purchase. In
addition many builders here already voluntarily do the vacuum test
because the resulting energy rating is a bonus when selling the home.