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Re: An ethical conundrum... Opinions welcome!



On Dec 5, 6:40=A0pm, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Dec 5, 9:49 am, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 4, 9:29 pm, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 4, 7:11 pm, tourman <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 4, 6:47 pm, Frank Olson
>
> > > > <use_the_email_li...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > JoeRaisin wrote:
> > > > > > Frank Olson wrote:
> > > > > >> tourman wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Nov 29, 10:23 am, mleuck <m.le...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > >>>> On Nov 29, 3:11 am, Effenpig1 <dirtyspicev...@xxxxxxxxxxx> w=
rote:
>
> > > > > >>>>>>> I've noticed a lot of high volume companies don't use tim=
er tests
> > > > > >>>>>>> on residential systems, usually because they want to cut =
down on
> > > > > >>>>>>> service since they don't have anyone local.
> > > > > >>>>>> Yea right
> > > > > >>>>> Ummm, Yea right, WHAT????
> > > > > >>>> Ummm Yea right it's nonsense someone does not use timer test=
s to
> > > > > >>>> prevent service calls.
>
> > > > > >>> RHC: More likely they don't use test signals to cut down the =
number of
> > > > > >>> signals going in to their massive stations. Millions of accou=
nts
> > > > > >>> equals millions of test signals, which in turn equals a lot m=
ore
> > > > > >>> hardware to handle them. And if they can fall back on that
> > > > > >>> manufacturer published doctrine..."test systems weekly" as an=
 excuse
> > > > > >>> not to do the right thing...why not ?
>
> > > > > >>> To their way of corporate thinking, this might well make sens=
e.....
> > > > > >>> who knows what's in their minds !!! It would be interesting t=
o know if
> > > > > >>> the worst of the bunch...Alarmforce.... program in test
> > > > > >>> signals...anyone know ?
>
> > > > > >> I have no idea. I was talking to the manager of one of the bet=
ter
> > > > > >> alarmco's in Vancouver and he told me that they lost a client =
to
> > > > > >> Alarmfarce. The guy had a full perimeter system installed.
> > > > > >> Glass-break detectors, etc. Sold the house and the new owner m=
oved
> > > > > >> his Alarmfarce system in. One door, one PIR (made "pet proof" =
by
> > > > > >> mounting it upside down three feet from the floor). The alarmc=
o's
> > > > > >> service dept was contacted to power down their equipment (incl=
uding
> > > > > >> the monitored smoke and carbon monoxide detectors). This compa=
ny
> > > > > >> charged $35.00 per month for monitoring ($25.00 per month for =
basic
> > > > > >> service, $5.00 for fire, and $5.00 for CO). Alarmfarce charges=
 $25.00
> > > > > >> for their voice service. I suppose the customer perceived "val=
ue" in
> > > > > >> one over the other. There's a lot of "hype" in the sales pitch=
 used
> > > > > >> by Alarmfarce. I hope Joel Matlin sleeps well at night secure =
in the
> > > > > >> knowledge that the fire and CO detectors in this house have be=
en
> > > > > >> neutralized because this customer chose "the best alarm system=
 in
> > > > > >> North America".
>
> > > > > >> PS. Like any good reputable alarm dealer the customer was offe=
red a
> > > > > >> degraded system (local only) rather than disconnect the thing
> > > > > >> entirely. He didn't want to pay for the service call so now, h=
e has
> > > > > >> practically "nothing".
>
> > > > > > Good Freakin' God - I hope there are other smoke detectors in t=
he house.
>
> > > > > > What is the liability - even if asked to do so - in killing smo=
ke
> > > > > > detectors in a house? Should the AHJ that granted occupancy way=
 back
> > > > > > when be contacted?
>
> > > > > I have no idea (if there are 110VAC smokes on the premises). The =
AHJ
> > > > > isn't involved when system smoke alarms are added to a residentia=
l
> > > > > security system. There isn't even a requirement to have them prop=
erly
> > > > > supervised.
>
> > > > > I know where you're coming from. Unfortunately there are still pe=
ople
> > > > > that don't properly research their options, and some people that =
are so
> > > > > "stuck" on one particular product (or the hype surrounding it), t=
hat it
> > > > > clearly affects their purchase decisions. God help all stupid peo=
ple
> > > > > (stuck with Alarmfarce systems).
>
> > > > RHC: Gawd, the utter stupidity of that homeowner is almost
> > > > unbelievable. I know that people get well sold on the Alarmforce
> > > > "hype" but that is going TOTALLY backwards !!!!!!!
> > > > I guess Rube Goldstein had it right....there's a sucker born every
> > > > minute.
>
> > > I though that was PT Barnum
>
> > > > Who said that a fool and his money are soon parted....WAIT ! I
> > > > know...it was Joel Matlin....:))-
>
> > > Or every Freebee alarm company customer.
>
> > > But, if you think about it, both sayings basically say the same thing=
.
>
> > RHC: Yeah, my mistake...it was PT Barnum. However, being serious for a
> > moment, you will likely see these borderline scammers coming south
> > soon. Frank (and I) are not exaggerating when we call them a "farce".
> > Cheap, plug in all in one keypad made in Korea now I believe (they
> > used to use Linear), totally wireless door and a wireless motion, non
> > supervised wireless, for $25 a month, no contract, with little to no
> > service available. If you want a medical remote (called Alarmcare),
> > you pay $28 monthly. They spend millions on TV advertising peddling
> > their two way voice and the fact that all other alarms are totally
> > useless compared to their's. Their advertising agency is GOOD, and if
> > I didn't know different, they could almost sell me. Their clients are
> > absolutely sold on their systems, and will defend their choice to a
> > point that is not logical....amazing !! A quick check at the local BBB
> > tells a sad story for anyone investigating them; however, anyone
> > inclined to get sucked in to their pitch is not likely the kind of
> > person who checks things out in advance anyway.
>
> > Freebee alarm companies at least give the client something real for
> > the money in most cases. These people don't even do that.......-
>
> I know what you are saying and feeling but .....
> Getting riled about it isn't going to stop it. As heartless as it
> sounds ..... I'm really not concerned about them or the people that
> buy into what companies like that say or do. When all this "Freebee"
> stuff started, I was just as concerned about what they'd do to my
> business but after awhile I saw that it had no negative affect at all.
> Let the Flim flam companies do what they will. Let the suckers do what
> they will. They'd never listen to you in the first place and they'd
> never be your customer. Maybe someday down the road they will be, but
> not today. I do realize that it may be easier for me to say that than
> someone who hasn't got as well an established customer base as I do
> but you should be able to see from your own example. Even though you
> started 30 years later than I did, you've been able to create an
> established customer base that values your work ethic. Your customers
> were smart enough to want more and saw through the ruse. And that's
> exactly the kind of people you want as customers. Not the bargin
> hunters, the ones who are always crying about how much it costs or
> always looking for something free and are stupid enough to believe
> they're getting it for free. You can't feel sorry for them and ......
> If you really stretch your imagination a long, long way ......in a
> way, you can't blame the companies who sell to them.
>
> You know what they say ......... all men are created equal.
> However, after they're created, there are no guarantees about equality
> from that point forward.
>
> Also, there's an old Pensylvania Dutch saying that's says something
> like " To soon we grow old. To late we grow smart."
> Some people never learn.

RHC: Jim, I don't know if your remarks were directed to me or Frank,
but since I'm in this thread, I'll answer for myself. Like you, these
types of companies really don't affect me to any great degree. After
you've been around awhile, and have an established base and
reputation, you tend to look at these things a little more
impersonally. I'm no saint, but one thing I hate and have always hated
is dishonesty in  any fashion, so they really get my dander up !!
Looking at the larger picture, it can be said that dishonesty is the
root cause of most things that are not as they should be, from
opportunistic companies like Alarmforce preying on suckers, all the
way up to the root causes of violence in Afghanistan. But if we
complain about the bad in our industry, and explain things rationally,
maybe one potential sucker will be scared into reality and will avoid
wasting his money.

I believe this is one of the legitimate things that we can do on a
newsgroup.....spread the word so to speak...?


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