Re: Problem With ADT System - Need Advice

["Robert L Bass" <robertbass1@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> I am trying to stay as professional as possible...

You blew it.

> but you are an idiot.

Perhaps, but at least I'm a succesful idiot.

> I'm not sure where the little burb you work or exist in but your fact are incorrect...

I work in Sarasota, Florida.  I spent 24 years building and running a central station alarm company in Connectocit before moving
south six years ago.

> Robert, you seem to be somebody of
> knowledge in this little world on the
> internet but apparently you are just the
> leader in defending the only technology
> to are allowed or can afforded to sell.

Awe, gee.  You got me.  My tiny, limited online store only sells 61,000 products from about 185 manufacturers.  I've been for the
day that Sonitrash allows online sales of their useless junk.  :^)

> It is silly to dispute facts with you...

No problem.  You just make them up as in your previous posts.

> Ok, so lets play in the shallow end of
> your pool, because apparently you have no deep end.

We can't.  We're replacing the roof so I have the solar heating system turned off.  The water is much too cold.  Check back with me
in a few weeks after the new tile is installed and the heater reconnected.  No, wait.  That won't do either.  I'll be in my second
home in Brazil for a couple of months.

> Let's say that our minimum wage central
> station operators is making a judgment
> on what they hear... what is your minimum
> wage central station operators is making
> a judgment on?

That's the key.  Every other minimum wage central station operator only has to make phone calls to the police and the property
owner.  They don't wait a few minutes trying to guess what's going on.  Sonitrash operators get it wrong most of the time.

> An indicator light that a door contact has opened or that a motion detector
> has gone off...

Actually, there's a screen full of information.  Real (non-Sonitrash) central stations got past simple indicator lights decades ago.
If you worked for a real alarm company you might have known that.

> Even you have to admit that motion
> detectors and door contact false...a lot!

Yep, but not nearly as often as non-discriminating audio threshold sensors and cheap microphones.

> I can tear apart your entire response
> because it is predicated on your opinion
> of your facts...

By all means continue.  You're doing such a fine job.  Why you're practically a legend in your own mind.

> Hey I have a couple of friends that work
> for ADT...

Me too.  I never worked there though.

> Come on Robert... everybody messes
> with the fact and the stats on occasion...

You guys don't.  You just make up statistics on the spot.  That's part of the reason Sonitrash is such a joke in the trade -- not to
mention among police officers who consider them the worst false alarm offender ever -- bar none.

> Your "over the top" attack of Sonitrol
> is just a blatant attempt to try to level the playing field...

Uh-huh, sure.  If you say so.
Heh, heh, heh... :^)

> Ok.. so just for you let's play apple
> to apples as much as possible...

Is this game played in the swimming pool?

> Central station operators.... Yours
>  / ours - their not rocket scientists (although ours do get paid substantially
> more than minimum.)

Really?  In that case I know an ex-ADT operator from Matawan who might like to apply for the job.

> Wiring... we all do it, wire is wire
> Door contacts... a contact is a contact

Did you learn all that in school?

> Ok what left... Your PIR our Audio Sensor..

I like a full perimeter system consisting of magnetic sensors (called "contacts") on every exterior door and every accessible
window.  I like to back that up with glass breakage detectors and dual-technology motion detectors.

> PIR's -
> They are non intelligent, they are triggered
> by various environmental changes, because
> of this they are know to go off "a lot". Most
> of the time when they go off they are not
> detecting what they were intended to detect...
> "the bad guy"...

I prefer dual tech detectors because most of the non-alarm stimuli that can set off a PIR don't affect a microwave detector.
Likewise, most problen stimuli that can trouble a microwave detector don't affect a PIR.  By combining both types of sensor within a
single detector and using careful placement, a dual-tech detector can all but eliminate false alarms.

> So how does YOUR central station know
> if the activation is not a false one...

If the installation is properly done, about 99% (figure picked from thin air like a Sonitrash claim) of problems will be due to user
error -- not the detector.

> well from what I understand they are counting on the fact that if it is a "bad
> guy" then he is going to set off there
> stuff to ...right?... hopefully??

Hmm.  I suspect you meant to say "other stuff" above.  That's about the only way to make sense out of the above.  If so, you're
close.  In many cases a real burglar will actually set off more thanb one detector.  However, most real central stations don't wait
for a second event before taking action.  Doing so would delay response almost as long as Sonitrash does.  Burglaries are usually
over in a matter of minutes.  It is imperitive that the authorities be notified promptly -- not after some operator wastes precious
time waiting to hear someone say, "C'mon, Mugsy.  Let's grab da jewelry and get outta hear."

> ... the PIR is not going off until AFTER
> they are already in the house or business.

Nope.  As I mentioned earlier, I believe that motion detectors should be used as a backup to full perimeter protection, like a
second line of defense.

> Remember our industry (because of PIR's
> has a known 90% false alarm rate...

Actually, it's more like 98% and the absolute worst offender in causing this is Sonitrash.

> even central station operators get frustrated
> with the "more active accounts" and they
> "reset" sometimes more than they call the
> customer or the police...

I admit that Sonitrash operators have been known to do that.  It's a shame that Soni-sales droids never tell prospective customers
about that.  Our central station, like every other *real* central station, kept a log of every event.  Out securoity systems also
kept a log of events.  If an operator were to take a Soni-nap like that it would easily be found out, resulting in termination.

> Audio Sensors -
> They are activated by sound (I won't go through
> the whole explanation right now)...

Oh, please do.

> And you are right that sound could be
> an animal, the mail man, an alarm clock
> going off, a bear sh*tting in the woods
> near by if he is loud enough...

That is the problem with non-discriminating audio sensors.  Any sound above an arbitrarrily set threshold will set them off.  It is
one of the reasons that Sonitrash is responsible for a far greater proportion of false dispatches than their share of actual
installations.

> NOW HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE....
> Our Central station operator can listen.
> they can hear the mail box, the bark
> and maybe even the fart from the bear...


Yeah, sure.  One client told me that a Soni-idiot had said that they can hear a person in stocking feet walking on a carpet in an
adjoining room.  I wonder if these morons attended the Olson School of Marketing.

> A lot of times we hear them out side
> the house / business as they are
> making their attempt to break in...

Some poor Soni-victim had one of these audio systems in a commercial structure in Hartford many years ago.  The neighborhood teens
used to have fun tripping the system by hitting their car horns in the adjoining property's parking lot.  The system would go off
several times a night.  After a while Sonitrash just ignored it completely.  After thieves cleaned them out without Sonitrash
responding one night, the owner took bids on a replacement system.  I sold him a full perimeter system.  The false alarms ended.

The following was documented by the local police department and is a matter of public record.  If you want to dig a bit you can
verify it.

Another ex-Sonitrash client was a 140,000 sf Goodyear warehouse and office complex in S Windsor, CT.  The first break-in lasted over
half an hour according to police.  The thieves removed almost every piece of computer equipment, printers, fax machines, etc., from
each office.

A few weeks later there was a second break-in.  This was the time when the only thing taken was the Sonitrash alarm control panel.
I never figured out why they bothered.

Sonitrash came out to service the alarm and while they were there noticed that there were problems with the fire alarm system.  To
their credit they attempted to fix it.  To their discredit they disconnected the horns and bypassed the "trouble" sounder, then
forgot to correct it.  A few days later someone (accidentally or deliberately) unscrewed a fire suppression hose until it was just
barely staying on the pipe, then opened the valve.  With the tightly folded hose in place the water only trickled for a while.
There wasn't enough flow to set off the waterflow sensor.  After a while the hose slipped off, releasing a powerful stream of water.

This was a Friday night.  Sonitrash's operator got the signal when the fire alarm went off.  Being a highly trained Soni-clerk, she
listened for the tell-tale sound of the fire horns.  Hearing nothing she hit the reset and went back to sleep (only kidding) or
whatever.  No one was notified until a police officer making his rounds happened to hear the water motor gong on Monday morning.  By
then the place was a swimming pool.  All of the loading bay doors were bowed out under the weight of the water.

The loss was in the thousands.  It would have been worse except none of the computer equipment had been replaced yet.

The company took bids on a replacement system.  I installed a full perimiter system with long range photo beams and motion detectors
as a backup.  We protected them for years.

> Oh wait ...did I say "we hear them"??

Yes, that is what you said.  Clearly you don't always hear them though.

> Yeah... we hear them.. so we know if
> is an animal, the mail man, an alarm clock going off, a bear sh*tting in the
> woods near by if he is loud enough.

What is this preoccupation you have with bear droppings?  It sounds a lot more like bull droppings.

> Ok, so apples to apples everybody
> makes mistake and nobody is perfect.

Yours was coming into this newsgroup and spouting a lot of nonsense about your ridiculously incompetent system and its imaginary
capabilities.

> Best of luck as "king of your internet hill"

Gee, thanks.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
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