Re: Do YOU ACTUALLY Own Your Equipment??

["Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

R.H.Campbell wrote:

Ya know, I wasn't even going to respond to this because your replies
are so obtuse that I'm wondering if you're intentionally playing
stupid.

> RHC: Jim, I'll read your posts no matter how long or off topic as long as
> they don't begin with personal insults. The ones that do, I just ignore the
> balance, which is the case in point with the post you're referring to.
> Others I'll respond to whether you and I agree or not. But if you keep
> harping on the same stuff in your posts,...well.... I've already said my
> piece, and there simply is no use replying, since your constantly harping on
> the same points is your attempt to score some sort of "win". I am not here
> to compete with anyone in any regard. I find no real reason to defend myself
> against your claims, some of which are outrageous. I'll simply explain the
> facts and let the reader judge based on those....

You call what I'm doing "harping" when it's always you who brings up
the subject of long term contracts?  WHEN did you ever see me or
ANYONE here encourage or entice an end user to sign a  long term
contract? When has anyone EVER brought up long term contracts
without you first being the one to tell an end user, that long term
contracts were unethical, a scam, of no value to the end user. To look
for
someone who wouldn't "lock them in" "trap them" etc, etc, etc
ad nausium harp harp HARP! Nobody here actually CARES what you
do or don't do with your clients. THAT IS until YOU begin HARPING
on it with people who come here. Why is it OK for you to insult all the

dealers here and everywhere, by your constant HARPING, but it isn't ok
for me to object? If you don't use long term contract's that's simply
great
for you. But once you put yourself into the position of feeling
obligated
to WARN people about not signing them, you put yourself exactly in the
same
category as Wireless Paul. What you feel about contracts is fine. All
well
and good. But there's no reason in the world for you to have to
continuously
HARP on it. ESPECIALLY, since you know that every one in this group
as well as 99.9% of  installers out there uses. at least a one year
agreement. You're intentionally stirring the pot, trying to force your
policies on dealers by virtue of your advice to end users. YOU know
that
there's no dealer that's EVER going to give one month agreements like
you
do, yet you encourage end users to seek short agreements. You're
deliberately leading the end users down a senseless path seeking
something
they're never going to find. Yet you push it as something they can
expect to negotiate. You've obviously diverted some end users away from
dealers out there who're running their businesses as every other dealer
is.
What's your problem?  OK already!  It's good for you. Leave other
people
out of it. Why would you want to affect some other dealers business
simply
because of your obsession with this? Leave it alone for cripes sake.
How
many people have read Paul's idiocy about wireless and have not used it
even though it may have been the ideal solution for them.Now. How many
dealers have given a quote for a job and when they wouldn't reduce
their
agreement terms, lost the job. And now the end user goes out and
ultimately finds that EVERYONE has long term contracts and the guy
on the internet group was full of crap, and now the original dealer is
SOL.
 Because now the end user is too embarrassed to call back the original
dealer since they disagreed over the term of the agreement.

> >
>   Seems you actually don't remember what you say ...... or if you do
> > ........ stick to it. Or is it simply that you only respond to the
> > things you can pick and choose because you have no defense for your
> > constant offending of other alarm dealers?
> >
> > And what exactly is it I don't know about? That you don't have a clue
> > if you're
> > unlocking a board for someone who cheated their alarm company out of
> > money due? That you couldn't possibly investigate the source of every
> > panel sent to you, to see if you were being lied to about the reason it
> > needs to be unlocked?
> >
> > And if you constantly propose that the locking code be given to the end
> > user once they've purchased the equipment, how could  this be an
> > accurate statment "in this example" ?
>
> RHC: Again, strange I don't see you railing against the others who unlock
> boards. Could it be you just like to pick on the minor points of my posts to
> score some kind of point ?

YOU'RE the one who's alway HARPING on and  acting out this holier
than thou business ethic, of everything for the end user. If your
ethics are
so damn perfect, how can you justify deprograming boards for people?

>
> I don't and have never proposed giving the end
> user the previous installer code that was in the panel. If you take the time
> to read and understand my web page on the subject, you will see that the
> installer code is NEVER given out under ANY conditions - period. That
> belongs to the previous company, and I have no right to reveal it (when I
> need to even find it out).

WHO, said anything about revealing dealer codes. It's the fact that
YOU,
erase boards for people and you don't even know if those boards were
locked because the end users owed the alarm company a trunk load of
money!
And then you talk about dealers scamming the public while you may be
helping people or other dealers to cheat the original dealers out of
their
just rewards.

> There are legitimate uses for the lockout
> feature, and these have nothing to do with the installer code being
> available or not. My complaints are ONLY against companies that use the
> lockout feature for illegitimate purposes that have more to do with
> vindictiveness, or trying desperately to keep a client who wishes to leave
> for legitimate reasons...poor service, bad relations...whatever. Thankfully,
> these are in the small minority ! But when the panel is paid for, and no
> money is due the alarmco, and the board is still locked keeping the end user
> from legitimate further use of HIS property, then yes, I'll continue to
> object to this practice!

All that is true but you tell end users to demand the code once the
system is
paid for. There's no way that you can ever know if the end user is
going
to screw the dealer out of money sometime in the future. There's no way
that you can ever know that the dealer isn't going to give bad service
either and then not unlock the board. But you can damn well think about

what you do to dealers and people in this group, when you tell end
users
to demand the code, possibly putting a dealer at risk, just because you
like
to play White Knight, in the eyes of end users. What does that do to
the
dealers in this group that lock their boards and the legitimate dealer
out
there, who's only trying to protect his assets and income?
What's this obsession of yours, of giving up your fellow dealers,
simply for the
opportunity of **** INFORMING**** some end user that you'll never see
of meet? Sure, do what ever you want for YOUR customers, but leave the
rest of the industry dealers and their customers out of it! Nobody
named
you caretaker of the trade. Or should I say misdirector of the trade.
Every
time you mention some of your outlandish policies, you may well be
ruining
a good relationship between a dealer and his potential client.

> >
> > > And what about the insults that you heap upon ligitimate dealers who
> > are simply trying to build equity in thier buiness when you tell end
> > users that any contract longer than one month is a rip off by their
> > alarm company?
>
> RHC: Jim, I do NOT nor NEVER WILL insult or not support small local dealers.
> Small dealers are the lifeblood of this industry and hold 85% of the
> business. I too am a small dealer, and hold that this is the best way for
> any residential and small business to buy their security services.

See what I mean? How damn obtuse can you be!
You DO insult EVERY dealer when you tell end users that
long term contracts are a scam. That they're unnecessary. That they're
a
rip off.

OF COURSE
they're necessary. Not to you, but to every alarm company that has any
sense at all about how to run a business and to gain equity in their
company.
You besmirch the integrity and reputation of every company out there
and
in this group, every time you scorn the use of contracts. No one here
ever
says that one month contracts and free service is stupid until YOU
start with
your *** INFORMING *** the end user stint. Maybe we should start
addressing you as Bob- Paul Campbel.

> Your
> claim that I think like a large corporate employee is totally without merit.
> It's true I've been there, and I totally reject that approach to doing
> business. Long ago, when I was in that position, I decided that if I ever
> got out of that ratrace, I'd run things my way, not the way that counted
> most to the corporate "bean counters" and to hell with the end customer !!
> This truly is the most proposterous claim you have ever made ! Just for your
> information, I routinely do the following things which I find hard to
> understand how anyone could ever interpret as " not supporting small
> dealers":
>
> 1- I give advice to a lot of small dealers who have no computer skills,
> relating to upload and download of their panels. I routinely upload their
> client's panels for them if they are unable to do so, or are on site with no
> access to local uploading.
> 2- I often give advice on technical matters to the best of my ability
> relating to the two panel lines I know well...DSC and Paradox.
> 3- I routinely give small companies a "heads up" if I receive calls from
> their clients wishing to leave (I wonder if the tables were turned, whether
> you'd do the same thing for me...)
> 4- I link to other dealers on my website who provide either a competitive
> service or a complementary one to what I am doing (right Mikey....)
> 5- I assist other small dealers to do their websites when they are not
> conversant in HTML.
> 6- I routinely unlock boards from dealers I trust for no charge to them
> provided their explanation is reasonable.

What? Do you think that that is unique? I actually help people get into
the
alarm installation trade? Train them, hook them up with suppliers, and
service providers. What's the big deal. Only a big deal to someone who
wants to be *admired* for there philanthropic endeavors, I would
imagine. I provide information, equipment and technical advice to the
local cable company so that they can better accommodate alarm system
hookup when they install their VoiP service. I train installers for my
competition and do service calls when their people can't find a
solution
to a problem. And some other things that I wouldn't even mention here.
What? Do you think your piddly little efforts are something special?
NOT!
And you can be sure that there are other here who outdo the both of us
in
these endeavors. But nobody brags about it or thinks they're great.
It's
just something that smart business people do to further the trade. But
you bring something special to the table regarding the
the trade, when you tear down the practices of dealers everywhere
 ..... with your INFORMING end users about your pie in the sky
policies.
Could it be that your contributions above are just making contrition
for your
sins?
>
> As far as heaping abuse on other companies for their use of long term
> contracts....only when it is not necessary. I recognize that long term
> contracts are a solid part of every alarmco's business practices. That's
> fine and works for them. It doesn't for me whether you and I agree or not.
> BUT...other than a few exceptions, it does NOTHING for the end user, and
> that is my sole point when I bring it up in a post. You and I are big boys;
> we know how things work on both sides of the issue ! We can each make
> individual decisions on the matter. My posts are aimed at end user readers,
> solely to give them the cautions that no one else seems to put out ! If they
> choose to sign up that way, that is their choice ! But they should know
> there are two sides to every story....

To serve what purpose? Do you actually think that you haven't given
some
alarm dealer out there, someplace, a hard time ....... to no avail?

If he DOESN'T get his long term contract, your causing him to loose
equity in his business. If he refuses to reduce his requirements, he
may
lose the job. So what's your point? Do you enjoy doing things like this

to unknown dealers out there? What's your problem? It doesn't make a
hill of beans difference WHO your post are AIMED at. It' who the post's
are
actually affecting.Yes we ARE big boys but you don't seem to be
playing an adult game here. You just seem to be so self centered and
possessed of you policies that you just plain don't give a damn WHO
you affect adversely, just so long as you get your point out to some
obscure end user who isn't ever going to find a dealer who will follow
your policy ANYWAY!

>
> As far as your posts go, occasionally you make good points when you stop
> spitting and snarling long enough to calm down and think about what you are
> saying, and come back with facts and opinions and not just vindictive
> commentary. We may never agree, but as long as you keep it civilized, we can
> continue to discuss things. Go berserk, and I'll simply "plonk" you as not
> worth bothering with. It really doesn't matter either way to me....
> >
> > Jeeeeze Bob,  is that a pointy tooth I see there?   Hmmmm, must be your
> > wool is slipping.
>
> RHC: Yeah...whatever....
>
> Well, I have to get back to unlocking a load of 50 some boards that just
> arrived this morning....ta ta.....
> Oh, by the way, thanks for the opportunity to obliquely advertise my
> services......

Oh and by the way, now that you've read all this,

....even though you don't actually say it to all the people in this
group and to dealers who you effect by your posts, I'd put the above
comment and the irresponsible things that you intentionally do to
people here and dealers everywhere, as just your way of saying
Fuck you.
Well ...... the same to you ....... too.
>