Re: Fire Side Chat -- Fire Alarm Code Issue

["Frank Olson" <feolson@xxxxxxxxxx>]

"Robert L. Bass" <robertlbass@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:qMGdnbTSQ8plxvHfRVn-gQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Robert's been involved in this type of
>> debate for years.  It's no sense arguing
>> with him.  He'll never understand that
>> a residential burg panel is not a listed
>> FACP.
>
> You are absolutely wrong, Frank.  To use a residential burg panel with
> smoke detectors anywhere in the US where NFPA is observed the panel MUST
> bears a UL listing for residential fire alarm at a minimum.  You can not
> just connect up whatever you happen to find to a fire alarm system --
> residential or commercial.

A burglar alarm panel will never be a listed fire alarm system.  There are
plenty of panels sold in the US that aren't UL listed for fire (or burg for
that matter).  There is nothing in any code or standard that prohibits a
homeowner from connecting his 110VAC smoke alarm to an auto dialler or his
security panel.  You sell to DIY all the time.  I seriously doubt a
homeowner is going to install a security system to the same standard as even
you would have (when you were in the trade).  I've seen the result of many a
DIY job (and had to fix quite a few as well), so I do know of what I speak.

Al Columbo is absolutely correct, but I seriously doubt any professional
installer would sanction (let alone actually hook up) an unsupervised
alternatively powered device to monitored alarm control.  I think it
behooves us (as professionals) to recommend the best solutions to our
clients.  Hooking a 110VAC smoke alarm to any security system  is not an
option.

In all fairness to you, Robert, you've raised an interesting point.  Al is
both "right" and "wrong", but not for the reasons you've stated.  There is
no proviso in the NEC (and I do possess a copy of it) that specifically
prohibits the connection of a relay like the Firex 499 to a security control
or automatic dialler.  In fact, there isn't anything prohibiting a homeowner
from hooking up a listed smoke detector (or heat for that matter) to his
monitored security system.  The issue of compatibility (and the suggested
methods of connnection) are included in every instruction manual that
accompanies any burglar alarm panel.

>
> The problem is Olson (who neither works nor lives in the USA) has zero
> understanding of our codes.  When you install smoke detectors or other
> fire detection devices in a building in the US they need to be installed
> in accordance with code.  Period.

The NEC mandates smoke detection in every single family dwelling and
specifies the areas that are required to be covered.  There is nothing in
the NEC that states you can't hook up your AC smoke alarm to your security
system or an auto-dialler.  I can do anything I damn well please in my own
house.  I don't even have to pull a permit.


>
> Ill-informed people sometimes think that because the panel is a
> residential burglar alarm the system is not a fire alarm and is therefore
> not subject to code.  That is patently wrong.  In order to legally connect
> smokes to a burglar alarm panel in a US residence the panel must be listed
> for residtial fire and all fire detection devices which are connected to
> it must be installed in accordance with code.

Who says a homeowner is going to connect *anything* "legally"?  An who
monitors/inspects what someone does in their own house on their own time?
Go to Home Depot, take a class on running wire, buy a self-help book (or
alternatively read a few manuals from some guy's online FAQ site), and go
for it!!


>
>> I am however surprised that Al would
>> suggest such a thing...
>
> He probably read the suggestion from another technician who posted here
> without knowing what the code requires.

He probably consulted a copy of the NEC, found out that technician was
absolutely correct and decided to write the article.


>
>> This having been said, there is however,
>> no standard or code violation involved
>> if a homeowner decides to connect his
>> smoke alarm system to his burg alarm
>> system (even if the equipment is UL
>> listed for fire).
>
> Wrong!  If he uses the Firex relay for the purpose it is a code violation.
> The fact that you don't know them does not change our codes.


Quote me the chapter and verse, Robert.  I've asked you to do this at least
twice before and you've never responded with anything more than personal
attacks and innuendo.