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Re: Hue musings ...
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Kevin, got any links to pics of the 3rd party UI For Vera? Will be
interest=
ing to see how that works out.
I'm not really using my HC2 now apart from the energy monitoring which is
q=
uite good. Not really sure why though, a combination of things probably -
v=
ery slow development progress and a UI that looks nice but is just so
infle=
xible.
Paul.
On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:30, Kevin Hawkins yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx<mailto:=
yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx> [ukha_d] <ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_=
d@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
I still use HV as it has xAP and C-Bus control - it's just so dependable.
Vera Plus is at last in pre-order now $140 with guaranteed delivery by
14th=
Feb - exorbitant shipping cost from the US but no doubt Vesternet will hav=
e an announcement soon and I'll be getting one from them. It supports IP,
Z=
-Wave+, ZigBee and BlueTooth. Potentially this ticks all the interface
req=
uirements and there's also a plugin for 433Mhz device support using
RFXCom=
. It's also programmable in LUA so accessible for third party plugins and
h=
as local control. Disappointingly the long anticipated beefier hardware
sp=
ec is a bit of let down with only marginal CPU / memory improvement.
But.... and it's such a shame we seem to have to say that about all
current=
products .. The developer community have got pretty upset with Vera recent=
ly over poor support and communications and a poor new UI. Some have left
f=
or other platforms - mainly OpenHAB who just announced a partnership with
t=
he very interesting Pine64 platform. Things are settling a little but I
su=
spect that the new RF interfaces on the Plus model will not be well
support=
ed for some time. There's a third party UI available which is excellent
tha=
t I now use.
As I have a Vera already and it's working pretty well including my xAP
supp=
ort and hence C-Bus I shall be getting one from Vesternet as soon as they
a=
nnounce in the hope the extra interfaces are working OK.
K
On 02/01/2016 13:04, Phil Harris phil@xxxxxxx<mailto:phil@xxxxxxx> =
[ukha_d] wrote:
This is basically what's holding me back from buying a SmartThings hub ...
=
As I said before, I'm really not at all comfortable using something that
*H=
AS* to rely on using a manufacturer end server that we rely on the good
wil=
l of the manufacturer to continue to host.
What we 'need' is - basically - a current day HomeVision that supports
ZigB=
ee / z-wave ... I had been wondering about HomeSeer and running it on a
loc=
al mini PC but I don't think HomeSeer supports ZigBee does it?
(It supports one of the 'Z' formats and I keep getting them confused and
ca=
n't remember which is which.)
Phil
Sent from another bloody fruit-based portable device...
On 2 Jan 2016, at 12:49, Kevin Hawkins <mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx=
> yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx<mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx>
[ukha_d=
] <ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
Although the control of Hue lamps from ST is pretty fast it still doesn't
a=
chieve this via local control on your network. Incredulously it goes via
bo=
th the ST cloud and the Hue cloud when using a Hue hub. This means that
ST=
can't control your Hue lights if your Internet is down. A quick disconnect=
of the Internet cable from your router will ascertain if a device has loca=
l control from ST.
The status of my Hue lights as shown in ST is frequently wrong and doesn't
=
correct even after hours. This means you can't use Hue status as a
trigger=
or the Hue switch to control a ST device. If you pair the Hue bulbs direct=
ly to the ST hub , thus not using the Hue hub, then you might get local
co=
ntrol at a reduced functionality level. The Hue switch will pair with the
S=
T hub but seems to drop out after a few hours., possibly something Philips
=
has implemented to keep you loyal to their system.
The only thing that the ST hub can control locally are some ZigBee devices
=
(ST supplied devices are ZigBee) and I believe a handful of Z-Wave
devices.=
No Ethernet device can (as yet) be locally controlled. Also if you modify=
the device code for any local device away from the ST approved template th=
en it is considered a custom device and won't run locally. Local devices
ha=
ve to have drivers supplied in firmware so can only be added via ST via a
f=
irmware update ... that's a humdinger of a restriction if you think about
i=
t.
You can check which devices and Apps are considered local to your hub with
=
these links Warning :-( you'll likely be disappointed at how few are
list=
ed, I think there's only the single SmartLights App available currently.
https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list
https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list
Aside from the current reliability issues and the still appalling UK
defici=
encies this is my fundamental concern with the ST architecture. The other
=
issues will be fixed over time but this cloud dependency likely won't.
A=
home control system should control your home locally wherever possible not=
relying on Internet connectivity and multiple cloud services. This is for=
speed, reliability and security all of which are impacted by using cloud c=
ontrol.
Samsung have announced they are building the hub into all their 2016 Tizen
=
based TV offerings. The ST hub is a well priced product and currently the
=
only one positioned for mass market, which is a good thing for HA. So I do
=
hope they get their act together - but there's a lot to sort out.
K
On 02/01/2016 11:07, Paul Gale groups2@xxxxxxx<mailto:groups2@sil=
iconpixel.com> [ukha_d] wrote:
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<div>Kevin, got any links to pics of the 3rd party UI For Vera? Will
be interesting to see how that works out. </div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">I'm not really using my HC2
now apart from the energy monitoring which is quite good. Not really sure
why though, a combination of things probably - very slow development
progress and a UI that looks nice but is just so
inflexible. <br>
<br>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">Paul.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:30, Kevin Hawkins <a href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";>
yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx</a> [ukha_d] <<a href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I still use HV as it
has xAP and C-Bus control - it's just so dependable.<br>
<br>
Vera Plus is at last in pre-order now $140 with guaranteed delivery by 14th
Feb - exorbitant shipping cost from the US but no doubt Vesternet will have
an announcement soon and I'll be getting one from them. It supports IP,
Z-Wave+, ZigBee and BlueTooth. Potentially
this ticks all the interface requirements and there's also a plugin for
433Mhz device support using RFXCom. It's also programmable in LUA
so accessible for third party plugins and has local control.
Disappointingly the long anticipated beefier hardware spec
is a bit of let down with only marginal CPU / memory improvement.<br>
<br>
But.... and it's such a shame we seem to have to say that about all current
products .. The developer community have got pretty upset with Vera
recently over poor support and communications and a poor new UI. Some have
left for other platforms - mainly OpenHAB
who just announced a partnership with the very interesting Pine64
platform. Things are settling a little but I suspect that the new
RF interfaces on the Plus model will not be well supported for some time.
There's a third party UI available which is excellent
that I now use. <br>
<br>
As I have a Vera already and it's working pretty well including my xAP
support and hence C-Bus I shall be getting one from Vesternet as soon as
they announce in the hope the extra interfaces are working OK.<br>
<br>
K<br>
<br>
<br>
On 02/01/2016 13:04, Phil Harris <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:phil@xxxxxxx";>
phil@xxxxxxx</a> [ukha_d] wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:FC554664-7024-4AF4-AE2D-6F43F6D9A900@xxxxxxx"
type="cite">
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<div>This is basically what's holding me back from buying a
SmartThings hub ... As I said before, I'm really not at all comfortable
using something that *HAS* to rely on using a manufacturer end server that
we rely on the good will of the manufacturer to continue
to host.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">What we 'need' is - basically
- a current day HomeVision that supports ZigBee / z-wave ... I had been
wondering about HomeSeer and running it on a local mini PC but I don't
think HomeSeer supports ZigBee does it?</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">(It supports one of the 'Z'
formats and I keep getting them confused and can't remember which is
which.)</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
Phil
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sent from another bloody fruit-based portable
device...</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 2 Jan 2016, at 12:49, Kevin Hawkins <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";>
</a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";>yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d] <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Although the control of Hue
lamps from ST is pretty fast it still doesn't achieve this via local
control on your network. Incredulously it goes via both the ST cloud and
the Hue cloud when using a Hue hub. This means that ST can't
control your Hue lights if your Internet is down. A quick disconnect of the
Internet cable from your router will ascertain if a device has local
control from ST.
<br>
<br>
The status of my Hue lights as shown in ST is frequently wrong and doesn't
correct even after hours. This means you can't use Hue status as
a trigger or the Hue switch to control a ST device. If you pair the Hue
bulbs directly to the ST hub , thus not using
the Hue hub, then you might get local control at a reduced
functionality level. The Hue switch will pair with the ST hub but seems to
drop out after a few hours., possibly something Philips has implemented to
keep you loyal to their system.<br>
<br>
The only thing that the ST hub can control locally are some ZigBee devices
(ST supplied devices are ZigBee) and I believe a handful of Z-Wave devices.
No Ethernet device can (as yet) be locally controlled. Also if
you modify the device code for any local device
away from the ST approved template then it is considered a custom device
and won't run locally. Local devices have to have drivers supplied in
firmware so can only be added via ST via a firmware update ... that's a
humdinger of a restriction if you think about
it.<br>
<br>
You can check which devices and Apps are considered local to your hub with
these links Warning :-( you'll likely be disappointed
at how few are listed, I think there's only the single
SmartLights App available currently.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list";>https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list";>https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list</a><br>
<br>
Aside from the current reliability issues and the still appalling UK
deficiencies this is my fundamental concern with the ST
architecture. The other issues will be fixed over time but this
cloud dependency likely won't. A home control system
should control
your home locally wherever possible not relying on Internet connectivity
and multiple cloud services. This is for speed, reliability and
security all of which are impacted by using cloud control.
<br>
<br>
Samsung have announced they are building the hub into all their 2016 Tizen
based TV offerings. The ST hub is a well priced product and
currently the only one positioned for mass market, which is a good thing
for HA. So I do hope they get their act together
- but there's a lot to sort out.<br>
<br>
K<br>
<br>
On 02/01/2016 11:07, Paul Gale <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:groups2@xxxxxxx";>
groups2@xxxxxxx</a> [ukha_d] wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:29C77AD5-935B-4B23-BF31-0B2E1C294913@xxxxxxx"
type="cite">
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div width="1" style="color: white; clear:
both;"></div>
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<br>
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