Re: Hue musings ...

["Kevin Hawkins yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ukha_d]" <ukha_d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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I still use HV as it has  xAP and C-Bus control - it's just so dependable.

Vera Plus is at last in pre-order now $140 with guaranteed delivery by
14th Feb - exorbitant shipping cost from the US but no doubt Vesternet
will have an announcement soon and I'll be getting one from them. It
supports IP, Z-Wave+, ZigBee and BlueTooth. Potentially this ticks all
the interface requirements and there's also a plugin for 433Mhz device
support using  RFXCom. It's also programmable in LUA so accessible for
third party plugins and has local control.  Disappointingly the long
anticipated beefier hardware spec is a bit of let down with only
marginal CPU / memory improvement.

But.... and it's such a shame we seem to have to say that about all
current products .. The developer community have got pretty upset with
Vera recently over poor support and communications and a poor new UI.
Some have left for other platforms - mainly OpenHAB who just announced a
partnership with the very interesting Pine64 platform.  Things are
settling a little but I suspect that the new RF interfaces on the Plus
model will not be well supported for some time. There's a third party UI
available which is excellent that I now use.

As I have a Vera already and it's working pretty well including my xAP
support and hence C-Bus I shall be getting one from Vesternet as soon as
they announce in the hope the extra interfaces are working OK.

K


On 02/01/2016 13:04, Phil Harris phil@xxxxxxx [ukha_d] wrote:
>
>
> This is basically what's holding me back from buying a SmartThings hub
> ... As I said before, I'm really not at all comfortable using
> something that *HAS* to rely on using a manufacturer end server that
> we rely on the good will of the manufacturer to continue to host.
>
> What we 'need' is - basically - a current day HomeVision that supports
> ZigBee / z-wave ... I had been wondering about HomeSeer and running it
> on a local mini PC but I don't think HomeSeer supports ZigBee does it?
>
> (It supports one of the 'Z' formats and I keep getting them confused
> and can't remember which is which.)
>
> Phil
>
> Sent from another bloody fruit-based portable device...
>
> On 2 Jan 2016, at 12:49, Kevin Hawkins yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx
> [ukha_d] < <mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx>ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> <mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>> Although the control of Hue lamps from ST is pretty fast it still
>> doesn't achieve this via local control on your network.
Incredulously
>> it goes via both the ST cloud and the Hue cloud when using a Hue
hub.
>> This means that ST can't control your Hue lights if your Internet
is
>> down. A quick disconnect of the Internet cable from your router
will
>> ascertain if a device has local control from ST.
>>
>> The status of my Hue lights as shown in ST is frequently wrong and
>> doesn't correct even after hours. This means you can't  use Hue
>> status as a trigger or the Hue switch to control a ST device. If
you
>> pair the Hue bulbs directly to the ST hub , thus not using the Hue
>> hub,  then you might get local control at a reduced functionality
>> level. The Hue switch will pair with the ST hub but seems to drop
out
>> after a few hours., possibly something Philips has implemented to
>> keep you loyal to their system.
>>
>> The only thing that the ST hub can control locally are some ZigBee
>> devices (ST supplied devices are ZigBee) and I believe a handful
of
>> Z-Wave devices. No Ethernet device can (as yet) be locally
>> controlled.  Also if you modify the device code for any local
device
>> away from the ST approved template then it is considered a custom
>> device and won't run locally. Local devices have to have drivers
>> supplied in firmware so can only be added via ST via a firmware
>> update ... that's a humdinger of a restriction if you think about
it.
>>
>> You can check which devices and Apps are considered local to your
hub
>> with these links  Warning :-(  you'll likely be disappointed at
how
>> few are listed,  I think there's only the single SmartLights App
>> available currently.
>>
>> https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list
>> https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list
>>
>> Aside from the current reliability issues and the still appalling
UK
>> deficiencies this is my fundamental concern with the ST
>> architecture.  The other issues will be fixed over time but this
>> cloud dependency likely won't.    A home control system should
>> control your home locally wherever possible not relying on
Internet
>> connectivity and multiple cloud services.  This is for speed,
>> reliability and security all of which are impacted by using cloud
>> control.
>>
>> Samsung have announced they are building the hub into all their
2016
>> Tizen based TV offerings. The ST hub is a well priced product and
>> currently the only one positioned for mass market, which is a good
>> thing for HA. So I do hope they get their act together  - but
there's
>> a lot to sort out.
>>
>> K
>>
>>  On 02/01/2016 11:07, Paul Gale groups2@xxxxxxx [ukha_d] wrote:
>
>
>


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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I still use HV as it
has  xAP and C-Bus
control - it's just so dependable.<br>
<br>
Vera Plus is at last in pre-order now $140 with guaranteed
delivery by 14th Feb - exorbitant shipping cost from the US but no
doubt Vesternet will have an announcement soon and I'll be getting
one from them. It supports IP, Z-Wave+, ZigBee and BlueTooth. 
Potentially this ticks all the interface requirements and there's
also a plugin for 433Mhz device support using  RFXCom. It's also
programmable in LUA so accessible for third party plugins and has
local control.  Disappointingly the long anticipated beefier
hardware spec is a bit of let down with only marginal CPU / memory
improvement.<br>
<br>
But.... and it's such a shame we seem to have to say that about
all current products .. The developer community have got pretty
upset with Vera recently over poor support and communications and
a poor new UI. Some have left for other platforms - mainly OpenHAB
who just announced a partnership with the very interesting Pine64
platform.  Things are settling a little but I suspect that the
new
RF interfaces on the Plus model will not be well supported for
some time. There's a third party UI available which is excellent
that I now use.  <br>
<br>
As I have a Vera already and it's working pretty well including my
xAP support and hence C-Bus I shall be getting one from Vesternet
as soon as they announce in the hope the extra interfaces are
working OK.<br>
<br>
K<br>
<br>
<br>
On 02/01/2016 13:04, Phil Harris <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:phil@xxxxxxx";>phil@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d] wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div>This is basically what's holding me back from buying a
SmartThings hub ... As I said before, I'm really not at all
comfortable using something that *HAS* to rely on using a
manufacturer end server that we rely on the good will of the
manufacturer to continue to host.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">What we 'need' is - basically
- a
current day HomeVision that supports ZigBee / z-wave ... I had
been wondering about HomeSeer and running it on a local mini PC
but I don't think HomeSeer supports ZigBee does it?</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">(It supports one of the 'Z'
formats
and I keep getting them confused and can't remember which is
which.)</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
Phil
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sent from another bloody fruit-based portable
device...</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 2 Jan 2016, at 12:49, Kevin Hawkins <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";>yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d] &lt;</a><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>&gt;
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Although the control of Hue
lamps
from ST is pretty fast it still doesn't achieve this via
local control on your network. Incredulously it goes via
both the ST cloud and the Hue cloud when using a Hue hub. 
This means that ST can't control your Hue lights if your
Internet is down. A quick disconnect of the Internet cable
from your router will ascertain if a device has local
control from ST.  <br>
<br>
The status of my Hue lights as shown in ST is frequently
wrong and doesn't correct even after hours. This means you
can't  use Hue status as a trigger or the Hue switch to
control a ST device. If you pair the Hue bulbs directly to
the ST hub , thus not using the Hue hub,  then you might get
local control at a reduced functionality level. The Hue
switch will pair with the ST hub but seems to drop out after
a few hours., possibly something Philips has implemented to
keep you loyal to their system.<br>
<br>
The only thing that the ST hub can control locally are some
ZigBee devices (ST supplied devices are ZigBee) and I
believe a handful of Z-Wave devices. No Ethernet device can
(as yet) be locally controlled.  Also if you modify the
device code for any local device away from the ST approved
template then it is considered a custom device and won't run
locally. Local devices have to have drivers supplied in
firmware so can only be added via ST via a firmware update
... that's a humdinger of a restriction if you think about
it.<br>
<br>
You can check which devices and Apps are considered local to
your hub with these links  Warning :-(  you'll likely
be
disappointed at how few are listed,  I think there's only
the single SmartLights App available currently.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list";>https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list";>https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list</a><br>
<br>
Aside from the current reliability issues and the still
appalling UK deficiencies this is my fundamental concern
with the ST architecture.  The other issues will be fixed
over time but this cloud dependency likely won't. Â Â 
A home
control system should control your home locally wherever
possible not relying on Internet connectivity and multiple
cloud services.  This is for speed, reliability and security
all of which are impacted by using cloud control.  <br>
<br>
Samsung have announced they are building the hub into all
their 2016 Tizen based TV offerings. The ST hub is a well
priced product and  currently the only one positioned for
mass market, which is a good thing for HA. So I do hope they
get their act together  - but there's a lot to sort
out.<br>
<br>
K<br>
<br>
 On 02/01/2016 11:07, Paul Gale <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:groups2@xxxxxxx";>groups2@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d] wrote:<br>
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