Re: Hue musings ...

["Robin Edwards robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ukha_d]" <ukha_d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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I do wish these companies would stop using external servers as a key
part of the solution.  I have Heatmiser Neo installed controlling
heating and it is always a concern as to what will happen if their
servers disappear.  Answer: nothing - control lost.  This irritation is
delaying me looking at new automation, I just don't like being dependant
on remote services outside my control.

(I've not had a problem with the Neo to be fair, but I am exposed to
additional failure scenarios over having it all in-home).

I had a look at the Zipato mega review, which is a great review. What is
the latest on this as I note it is dated 2013.

robin

On 02/01/2016 13:30, Kevin Hawkins yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx [ukha_d]
wrote:
>
>
> I still use HV as it has  xAP and C-Bus control - it's just so
dependable.
>
> Vera Plus is at last in pre-order now $140 with guaranteed delivery by
> 14th Feb - exorbitant shipping cost from the US but no doubt Vesternet
> will have an announcement soon and I'll be getting one from them. It
> supports IP, Z-Wave+, ZigBee and BlueTooth.  Potentially this ticks
> all the interface requirements and there's also a plugin for 433Mhz
> device support using  RFXCom. It's also programmable in LUA so
> accessible for third party plugins and has local control.
> Disappointingly the long anticipated beefier hardware spec is a bit of
> let down with only marginal CPU / memory improvement.
>
> But.... and it's such a shame we seem to have to say that about all
> current products .. The developer community have got pretty upset with
> Vera recently over poor support and communications and a poor new UI.
> Some have left for other platforms - mainly OpenHAB who just announced
> a partnership with the very interesting Pine64 platform.  Things are
> settling a little but I suspect that the new RF interfaces on the Plus
> model will not be well supported for some time. There's a third party
> UI available which is excellent that I now use.
>
> As I have a Vera already and it's working pretty well including my xAP
> support and hence C-Bus I shall be getting one from Vesternet as soon
> as they announce in the hope the extra interfaces are working OK.
>
> K
>
>
> On 02/01/2016 13:04, Phil Harris phil@xxxxxxx [ukha_d] wrote:
>> This is basically what's holding me back from buying a SmartThings
>> hub ... As I said before, I'm really not at all comfortable using
>> something that *HAS* to rely on using a manufacturer end server
that
>> we rely on the good will of the manufacturer to continue to host.
>>
>> What we 'need' is - basically - a current day HomeVision that
>> supports ZigBee / z-wave ... I had been wondering about HomeSeer
and
>> running it on a local mini PC but I don't think HomeSeer supports
>> ZigBee does it?
>>
>> (It supports one of the 'Z' formats and I keep getting them
confused
>> and can't remember which is which.)
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> Sent from another bloody fruit-based portable device...
>>
>> On 2 Jan 2016, at 12:49, Kevin Hawkins yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx
>> [ukha_d] <ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>> Although the control of Hue lamps from ST is pretty fast it
still
>>> doesn't achieve this via local control on your network.
>>> Incredulously it goes via both the ST cloud and the Hue cloud
when
>>> using a Hue hub.  This means that ST can't control your Hue
lights
>>> if your Internet is down. A quick disconnect of the Internet
cable
>>> from your router will ascertain if a device has local control
from ST.
>>>
>>> The status of my Hue lights as shown in ST is frequently wrong
and
>>> doesn't correct even after hours. This means you can't  use
Hue
>>> status as a trigger or the Hue switch to control a ST device.
If you
>>> pair the Hue bulbs directly to the ST hub , thus not using the
Hue
>>> hub,  then you might get local control at a reduced
functionality
>>> level. The Hue switch will pair with the ST hub but seems to
drop
>>> out after a few hours., possibly something Philips has
implemented
>>> to keep you loyal to their system.
>>>
>>> The only thing that the ST hub can control locally are some
ZigBee
>>> devices (ST supplied devices are ZigBee) and I believe a
handful of
>>> Z-Wave devices. No Ethernet device can (as yet) be locally
>>> controlled.  Also if you modify the device code for any local
device
>>> away from the ST approved template then it is considered a
custom
>>> device and won't run locally. Local devices have to have
drivers
>>> supplied in firmware so can only be added via ST via a
firmware
>>> update ... that's a humdinger of a restriction if you think
about it.
>>>
>>> You can check which devices and Apps are considered local to
your
>>> hub with these links  Warning :-(  you'll likely be
disappointed at
>>> how few are listed,  I think there's only the single
SmartLights App
>>> available currently.
>>>
>>> https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list
>>> https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list
>>>
>>> Aside from the current reliability issues and the still
appalling UK
>>> deficiencies this is my fundamental concern with the ST
>>> architecture.  The other issues will be fixed over time but
this
>>> cloud dependency likely won't.    A home control system should
>>> control your home locally wherever possible not relying on
Internet
>>> connectivity and multiple cloud services.  This is for speed,
>>> reliability and security all of which are impacted by using
cloud
>>> control.
>>>
>>> Samsung have announced they are building the hub into all
their 2016
>>> Tizen based TV offerings. The ST hub is a well priced product
and
>>> currently the only one positioned for mass market, which is a
good
>>> thing for HA. So I do hope they get their act together  - but
>>> there's a lot to sort out.
>>>
>>> K
>>>
>>>  On 02/01/2016 11:07, Paul Gale groups2@xxxxxxx [ukha_d]
wrote:
>
>
>
>

--
regards, robin

Robin Edwards
Please do not send attachements greater than 10MB to my email.


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I do wish these companies would stop using external servers as a key
part of the solution.  I have Heatmiser Neo installed
controlling
heating and it is always a concern as to what will happen if their
servers disappear.  Answer: nothing - control lost. 
This irritation
is delaying me looking at new automation, I just don't like being
dependant on remote services outside my control.<br>
<br>
(I've not had a problem with the Neo to be fair, but I am exposed to
additional failure scenarios over having it all in-home).<br>
<br>
I had a look at the Zipato mega review, which is a great
review. 
What is the latest on this as I note it is dated 2013.<br>
<br>
robin<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/01/2016 13:30, Kevin
Hawkins
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";>yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d] wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5687D0E2.5000902@xxxxxxx"
type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I still use HV as it
has  xAP and
C-Bus control - it's just so dependable.<br>
<br>
Vera Plus is at last in pre-order now $140 with guaranteed
delivery by 14th Feb - exorbitant shipping cost from the US but
no doubt Vesternet will have an announcement soon and I'll be
getting one from them. It supports IP, Z-Wave+, ZigBee and
BlueTooth.  Potentially this ticks all the interface
requirements and there's also a plugin for 433Mhz device support
using  RFXCom. It's also programmable in LUA so accessible for
third party plugins and has local control.  Disappointingly the
long anticipated beefier hardware spec is a bit of let down with
only marginal CPU / memory improvement.<br>
<br>
But.... and it's such a shame we seem to have to say that about
all current products .. The developer community have got pretty
upset with Vera recently over poor support and communications
and a poor new UI. Some have left for other platforms - mainly
OpenHAB who just announced a partnership with the very
interesting Pine64 platform.  Things are settling a little but I
suspect that the new RF interfaces on the Plus model will not be
well supported for some time. There's a third party UI available
which is excellent that I now use.  <br>
<br>
As I have a Vera already and it's working pretty well including
my xAP support and hence C-Bus I shall be getting one from
Vesternet as soon as they announce in the hope the extra
interfaces are working OK.<br>
<br>
K<br>
<br>
<br>
On 02/01/2016 13:04, Phil Harris <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:phil@xxxxxxx";>phil@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d]
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div>This is basically what's holding me back from buying a
SmartThings hub ... As I said before, I'm really not at all
comfortable using something that *HAS* to rely on using a
manufacturer end server that we rely on the good will of the
manufacturer to continue to host.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">What we 'need' is - basically
- a
current day HomeVision that supports ZigBee / z-wave ... I had
been wondering about HomeSeer and running it on a local mini
PC but I don't think HomeSeer supports ZigBee does it?</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">(It supports one of the 'Z'
formats
and I keep getting them confused and can't remember which is
which.)</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
Phil
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sent from another bloody fruit-based portable
device...</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 2 Jan 2016, at 12:49, Kevin Hawkins <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";>yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx</a></a>
[ukha_d] &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>&gt;

wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Although the control of Hue
lamps from ST is pretty fast it still doesn't achieve this
via local control on your network. Incredulously it goes
via both the ST cloud and the Hue cloud when using a Hue
hub.  This means that ST can't control your Hue lights if
your Internet is down. A quick disconnect of the Internet
cable from your router will ascertain if a device has
local control from ST.  <br>
<br>
The status of my Hue lights as shown in ST is frequently
wrong and doesn't correct even after hours. This means you
can't  use Hue status as a trigger or the Hue switch to
control a ST device. If you pair the Hue bulbs directly to
the ST hub , thus not using the Hue hub,  then you might
get local control at a reduced functionality level. The
Hue switch will pair with the ST hub but seems to drop out
after a few hours., possibly something Philips has
implemented to keep you loyal to their system.<br>
<br>
The only thing that the ST hub can control locally are
some ZigBee devices (ST supplied devices are ZigBee) and I
believe a handful of Z-Wave devices. No Ethernet device
can (as yet) be locally controlled.  Also if you modify
the device code for any local device away from the ST
approved template then it is considered a custom device
and won't run locally. Local devices have to have drivers
supplied in firmware so can only be added via ST via a
firmware update ... that's a humdinger of a restriction if
you think about it.<br>
<br>
You can check which devices and Apps are considered local
to your hub with these links  Warning :-(  you'll
likely
be disappointed at how few are listed,  I think there's
only the single SmartLights App available currently.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list";>https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list";>https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list</a><br>
<br>
Aside from the current reliability issues and the still
appalling UK deficiencies this is my fundamental concern
with the ST architecture.  The other issues will be fixed
over time but this cloud dependency likely won't. Â Â 
A
home control system should control your home locally
wherever possible not relying on Internet connectivity and
multiple cloud services.  This is for speed, reliability
and security all of which are impacted by using cloud
control.  <br>
<br>
Samsung have announced they are building the hub into all
their 2016 Tizen based TV offerings. The ST hub is a well
priced product and  currently the only one positioned for
mass market, which is a good thing for HA. So I do hope
they get their act together  - but there's a lot to sort
out.<br>
<br>
K<br>
<br>
 On 02/01/2016 11:07, Paul Gale <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:groups2@xxxxxxx";>groups2@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d] wrote:<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
regards, robin

Robin Edwards
Please do not send attachements greater than 10MB to my email.</pre>




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